Sophy Ridge on Sunday Interview with Paul Nuttall, UKIP Leader, 5.03.17

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY, SKY NEWS
    

SOPHY RIDGE: Now it’s been a pretty bad couple of weeks for the UKP leader Paul Nuttall and I sat down with him and I started by asking how damaged he was by losing that critical by-election in Stoke on Trent.  

PAUL NUTTALL: It was bruising personally but for the party it wasn’t the end of the world as some journalists have written. We halved Labour’s majority, it was only seat number 72 on our hit list anyway.  I would love to have won, I’d have loved to have been in the House of Commons now.   It wasn’t to be, it isn’t the end of UKIP and UKIP will go on from strength to strength.

SR: It’s quite an optimistic way of looking at the result though isn’t it?  It’s the fifth time you have tried to be an MP, the fifth time you have failed, you were running in Brexit Central against a Labour party that is in problems to say the least and you still couldn’t win.

PAUL NUTTALL: Well look, the reason why we didn’t win was because the Conservative vote held up in a way that we didn’t expect but we also expected the Liberal Democrat vote to be bigger than it was and we thought they’d have taken more votes from the Labour party but as I say, the big one is that the Tories didn’t switch and that’s because Theresa May is going through this honeymoon period at the moment where she is talking the talk very well and it’s harming our vote but that honeymoon period won’t last forever.  I think once Article 50 is trigged, I think once we get into the meat of the renegotiation, she will begin to barter things away such as fisheries, I think we may well end up still paying a membership fee into the European Union and the Conservatives need to know that UKIP will be there if that happens.

SR: At the same time, your personal reputation has taken a huge battering over the last few weeks.  Your opponents are trying to paint you as a fantasist, a compulsive liar and to be honest you have provided them with some ammunition. If you look at some of the false claims that have been made about you, that you lost close friends at Hillsborough, that you used to be a professional footballer, that you are on the board of a charity – what’s going on?

PAUL NUTTALL: Well I’ll deal with these one by one.  As for the board on the charity thing, I was asked back in 2009, the charity at the time okayed the press release so I don't know what’s happened there, that isn’t our fault.  As for the close friends at Hillsborough thing, that went up on my website in 2011.  I hadn’t checked my website, I didn’t know it was there, my press officer offered to resign as a result, I refused to accept it because in the end it’s my responsibility and I take it.  It’s my fault, I should have checked, I didn’t know.  However the smear campaign that started the week before and the suggestion that I wasn’t actually at Hillsborough even though I’ve given evidence to Operation Resolve and I’ve said I was prepared to stand up in court on this, even though we provided witness statements to a national newspaper, was a co-ordinated and organised hit job on me and it happened because we were standing in the by-election.

SR: You say it is a co-ordinated hit job but those claims were on your website, you can see why Labour MPs pointed that out can’t you?

PAUL NUTTALL: Well hang on, one of the other accusations was that I had claimed to have a PhD.  I have never in my life claimed to have a PhD.  If you go through the records, no one has ever seen me or heard me call myself Dr Nuttall, that came from a LinkedIn page that wasn’t even mine.  

SR: But there were those claims that were on your website and in your name in interviews.

PAUL NUTTALL: Well the charity one wasn’t a false claim, the professional footballer one was a mistake because I did play at Tranmere from the age of 13 to 18 but never signed professional forms and the Hillsborough one, yeah, I failed to check something but I want to put this in perspective.  I didn’t lie about weapons of mass destruction, I didn’t send anyone into an illegal way, I didn’t say anything racist, I’ve never been caught in a paedophile gang or anything. The fact is I failed to check something which went up on my website in 2011 and I just think that people need to take some perspective.  What’s happened is that this story has been manufactured to roll on because it suits certain people with a political purpose.

SR: So you could argue then that you’re not lying, you’re just unprofessional for not checking your website.

PAUL NUTTALL: Well not unprofessional.  Again it was back in 2011, I didn’t check and for that I am sorry, it’s my fault but again I think we need to get a bit of perspective on this.

SR: You also of course have to deal with some pretty big personalities in UKIP to say the least, that’s probably the polite way of putting it.  We’ve seen Arron Banks, one of your party’s keen donors saying he’s going to run against your only MP.  You’ve seen Nigel Farage describe Douglas Carswell, that MP, as a Tory party posh boy.  What on earth is going on?  It sounds like a civil war.

PAUL NUTTALL: Well it hasn’t been a good week for UKIP.  I went away after the Stoke by-election and as they say, when the cat’s away the mice have certainly played.  I’m back now, the cat’s back and I’m going to sort this out.  The fact is I was elected with the biggest mandate in the history of UKIP on November 28th calling for unity and that what UKIP needs to go forward.  It needs to hold its nerve, it needs to come together and UKIP needs to stay on the pitch because if it does, the benefits that we will reap will be massive because once these Brexit negotiations begin to fail – and as I said, if she starts, Theresa May starts to barter away certain things, UKIP will go through the roof when it comes to [inaudible].

SR: So what are you going to do then?  In any other party if someone was openly plotting to remove their single MP they’d be thrown out, they’d be stripped of their membership.  Are you running the show or is it Nigel Farage?

PAUL NUTTALL: Oh no, I run the show, let’s be perfectly clear.  As I say, I got the biggest mandate in the history of the party to do so.  There have been accusations made against Douglas Carswell that he didn’t try to get Nigel Farage a knighthood.  At the behest of himself the party chairman met with Douglas the other day and we have now had it in writing from Douglas that he did speak to the right people and he did lobby for Nigel to get a knighthood.  I’ve lobbied myself, I’ve written to the people that matter, I’ve tried to get Nigel Farage a peerage and I think it is a disgrace that he hasn’t been honoured in one way or another, considering when you look at some of the people that do receive honours.  Nigel Farage is the most influential British politician of the 21st century because if it wasn’t for him and it wasn’t for UKIP we would never have got a referendum and we would never have got Brexit.

SR: So did Nigel Farage and Arron Banks tell you then before they moved against Carswell?

PAUL NUTTALL: No, because I was away.  I went away after …

SR: But they could have called you up, couldn’t they?

PAUL NUTTALL: I was out of contact, I went away and I’ve come back and I’ve walked into this but the fact is Douglas has put it in writing now, it will now go to the National Executive of the party who make those decisions.  I want Nigel to be involved in UKIP, I want Nigel Farage to be front of house because he is one of the best communicators in British politics and, as I say, he should be given an honour, he should be given a knighthood because the things he has achieved in politics have been massive.

SR: Are you worried though about these rumours of Douglas Carswell potentially defecting to the Conservatives, is that something you want to stop happening?

PAUL NUTTALL: Well Douglas has said that he is 100% UKIP.  I never want to see people leave the party and people aren’t leaving the party actually since I’ve taken over, party membership hasn’t fallen at all.  In fact we are up in the opinion polls, I think when I took over we were on 12%, we are now on 15% so we’re going up.  This isn’t really a party in crisis as the media like to call it …

SR: It’s not a party in crisis?  No?

PAUL NUTTALL: No, it’s not.  Do you know what, Sophy, I’ve read UKIP’s obituary written a hundred times and I remember when the party really was in crisis.  I’m an old hand at this, 2006, 2007 we were on zero percent in the opinion polls, we’d had the fallout of Kilroy-Silk and there was a chance then of UKIP disappearing.  A party that is on 15% in the opinion polls, has great things to look forward to in the future is not in crisis.

SR: At the same time though you have had, whether it’s fisticuffs in the European parliament, some of your major figures …

PAUL NUTTALL: Allegedly, allegedly.

SR: Allegedly, allegedly.  Whether it’s major political figures trading blows on Twitter, I mean at time you must admit it’s looked a bit of a circus hasn’t it?

PAUL NUTTALL: It hasn’t looked good, it certainly didn’t look good actually in the autumn.  I think once I took over on November 28th, smooth the waters and there wasn’t a problem, the party was unified.  Since the result of the by-election, and I went away, it has sort of broken out again and I’m now back, I’ve got to get it under control and I will get it under control

SR: Some people will say do you really need UKIP right now because Theresa May is delivering on Brexit she says, she’s taking the UK out of the single market.  If the polls are to be believed people actually think she is delivering, she’s doing a good job, what’s the point of UKIP?

PAUL NUTTALL: Look, many of her speeches sound like UKIP conference speeches at the moment but she has always been very good at talking the talk, Theresa May but if you look at her record as Home Secretary, the proof is in the pudding that when it comes to walking the walk she generally fails, whether that is getting hold of radical Islam or whether that is cutting the immigration figures down to the tens of thousands, which she said she was going to do.  In her last year as Home Secretary a city the size of Newcastle upon Tyne came into this country, net.  That isn’t a success and I don’t believe for one that she will deliver the Brexit that people really voted for on June 23rd and that’s why UKIP has to to stay on the pitch to ensure that it is delivered.

SR: We’ve talked a lot about the politics, I am quite keen to talk about the personal impact of the past couple of weeks because politically it’s been pretty bruising of course, personally it has been brutal.  How has it been for you and your family?

PAUL NUTTALL: Well it’s been quite difficult to be honest with you, the harassment of my family is something I was never prepared for and they certainly weren’t prepared for.  When you have your 86 year old grandmother having a camera shoved in her face whilst she is standing there in her dressing gown, whether you’ve got your widowed auntie being harassed, whether you’ve got your parents being harassed, I mean the list goes on and on and on.  However, and I said this in the conference speech, I won’t let it break me because if it breaks me, it breaks UKIP and I’m more determined now than ever to ensure that UKIP goes on from strength to strength.

SR: Beneath all that though, you must have had a wobble.  Have you ever felt like packing it all in?

PAUL NUTTALL: You know, some mornings you do wake up and you think, do I really need this but do you know, I said when I became UKIP leader I was doing this out of duty and I have a duty to ensure that Brexit means real exit.

SR: The Hillsborough allegations of course must have been personally very painful as well for someone who is a Liverpudlian, who is a Liverpool fan.  For lots of people who were at Hillsborough, that day will have been ingrained in their memory, could you talk us through what it was like for you?

PAUL NUTTALL: Well I was 12 and a half and it’s something which I don’t really talk about that much.  I was there with my father and my uncles and we were there in the upper tier of the Leppings Lane end and as I say, I’ve given evidence to the police on this, I’ve spoken to the people that matter in Liverpool about the situation and it is quite clear, I was there on the day and any scurrilous accusations that have been made that I wasn’t there and I lied about being there are quite frankly just part of this new campaign.

SR: Has it been a deliberate decision not to talk about it?  Is that because it’s painful?

PAUL NUTTALL: Do you know, I just wanted to get on with my life.  As I say, I was 12 and a half, I was a young boy who had gone to watch a football match with his family and witnessed things that no child I suppose of 12 and a half should ever have to witness but I will say this, I didn’t witness the worst of it because thank God, my father was an experienced match goer and he realised pretty quickly that something was badly wrong and I think we were probably one of the first to leave the stadium.  

SR: I’ve always seen you in a way as a bit of a reluctant leader.  It’s almost as if you put yourself forward once there were no potential candidates left in UKIPs ranks and I just wonder why that is, is it because you knew you had some skeletons in your closet, is it because you knew you were going to take over a basket case of a party?  What was it?

PAUL NUTTALL: No, no.  I’ve given my life to Brexit, my political life and I just thought once Brexit had happened and I’d been the Deputy Leader for six long years, that it was time for Nigel and I to hand on to the next generation.  We tried to do that, it failed quite spectacularly and one thing was going to happen, one of two things were going to happen in October, and that was that either Nigel Farage came back for a time as leader or I stepped up to the plate to do it and Nigel definitely wasn’t going to come back as leader and therefore it was my duty to ensure that UKIP remained a political force in politics.

SR: So a duty rather than a personal choice then really?

PAUL NUTTALL: Well it was my duty.  I’m not going to deny that, I wanted to ensure that UKIP was there to make sure that Brexit was really Brexit, to ensure that people got what they voted for on June 23rd but equally I still believe UKIP has a great opportunity in working class constituencies to replace the Labour party.  This is going to be a long term project, not a short term project and that’s why the Stoke result might be a dent but it’s not fatal.

SR: UKIP leader Paul Nuttall there, putting a brave face on the last few weeks.