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SOPHY RIDGE: Now this week Alistair Burt became the 29th Conservative MP to resign from an official government position because of Brexit and the way things are going, it seems unlikely that he’ll be the last. Well he joins us now from his constituency in Bedfordshire, thank you very much for being with us. Can you just explain to us why you decided to quit the government?

ALISTAIR BURT: Yes, we were heading towards these votes on alternatives. I had been a very strong supporter of the Prime Minister’s Withdrawal Agreement and I continue to support it, I voted for it last Friday, Minister or not but I became very concerned that if it didn’t get through we needed an alternative and my colleagues had to be free to vote for that alternative, otherwise the Parliamentary vote on an alternative didn’t mean very much and I wasn’t certain that would be the case, I wasn’t certain that Oliver Letwin’s amendment would get through and I felt I had to vote for it. I was also concerned that other of my colleagues were doing the work to create alternatives and I wasn’t and I felt it was time to do that but I still want to see the Withdrawal Agreement go through but if not, because I’m concerned about no deal, I want to make sure there is an alternative available.

SR: From your conversations with the Prime Minister, I mean you went to Chequers the day before you resigned, to talk with the Prime Minister, were you aware that she might try and go for a no deal Brexit if her deal doesn’t get through?

ALISTAIR BURT: The Prime Minister has always been pretty clear that that really isn’t her option. She is very concerned about the state of the union and what a no deal Brexit would mean in relation to that, not least in relation to Ireland and she has been pretty clear about that. However I am also very conscious that she is under huge pressure from some in the Cabinet and others, who see no deal as the way for the United Kingdom to leave and the Prime Minister needs to know that there are colleagues who don’t agree with that, there are colleagues who are prepared to be as committed as some of our no deal colleagues to prevent this and that we have to find a compromise. I voted to remain in the European Union, I am not a remainer now. I have spent my time in the House of Commons since the referendum voting to leave because I think that’s the right thing for the United Kingdom, so I have compromised to a degree and I’ve said this to my colleagues, we are looking for more compromise from them if the country is going to get through this.

SR: So do you think there are other members of the Cabinet, other Ministers, who are willing to resign from the government to try and stop a no deal? How many do you think?

ALISTAIR BURT: There are, there are. I’m not going to put a number on it but that really shouldn’t be in a way what we’re talking about. Resigning from the government is not a great thing to do and I’m sorry that I had to do it, there’s been a lot of people but ultimately you have to have a government, it’s got to keep functioning, it’s got to keep running the country and we are doing a lot of things besides concentrating on Brexit. I don’t want to see more resignations, my colleagues and I want to see a situation in which we’ve made an agreement and we’ve done what we think the British people have wanted to do which is leave the EU but leave on good terms. These are our partners, these are our colleagues and friends in the European Union. The way the debate has gone has been to separate us from our partners and turn them into our enemies and we are at peril from this. I’ve spent enough time in conflict areas over the last few years to know how fragile peace and security is. You can pull a thread and before you know where you are, things have got very, very difficult. We should be looking to partner with our friends, leave on good terms and leave with good terms for the future relationships and that’s what I hope colleagues will still compromise on doing. I don’t want to see more resignations.

SR: You were talking about the fragility there of nations around the world, are you really worried about the future of the UK if people feel that Brexit has gone wrong?

ALISTAIR BURT: I do worry. I think like many colleagues and like Lisa and Emily have spoken about on the programme before, there is a greater polarisation in politics than ever before and that polarisation has turned not into debate where you recognise the strength of an opponent’s argument and you move to overcome it, but you start to feel there is nothing whatsoever good in what someone else is putting to you and that’s very dangerous. We’ve seen in other countries that very quickly if people become so polarised they can’t accept an argument on the other side, then people start to resort to different methods. Now it hasn’t happened here and when I’ve been going round the world, although people are puzzled about us leaving Europe, they have commented about the strength of our democracy and how we have been able to have these arguments but I am very conscious – and one of the reasons why I voted to remain in the European Union – is we’ve had 70 years of peace since the end of the Second World War in Europe and these things are held together by multi-national relationships and institutions. Now if we are going to leave the EU, and it is perfectly possible to do so without everything fracturing, we should do it in a way that ensures that relationship continues and continues to be strong and I think we have to be very careful about how we do these things and how we debate and argue with each other.

SR: You have been talking about the polarisation of the debate, the lack of ability of people to compromise. Dominic Grieve, your colleague, who backs a second referendum, lost a confidence motion in his Conservative Association this week and you tweeted to say where are earth are we heading with situations like this? Where are we heading?

ALISTAIR BURT: I was extremely disappointed with the result in Dominic’s constituency. Now there appears to be a situation where people have “rejoined” the Conservative party because they didn’t belong to another like UKIP and they are setting about some of my colleagues. I must say I don’t notice the reverse, Conservatives who voted to remain are not ganging up on colleagues who have resolutely refused to leave or bin the hardliners in order to remove them, there’s no remainer force getting together to seek deselections. We want a broad church in the Conservative party. I value colleagues like Jacob Rees-Mogg and Steve Baker who have very strong principles and work the other way, I want to be part of a Conservative party that includes those views and I hope they want to be part of a Conservative party that includes outstanding individuals like Dominic who has given great service to the country as Attorney General and as Minister. We have got to work very hard to find this way through: if we don’t, if our associations become more polarised – and mine has been terrific with me, it has recognised what I voted for, it has recognised what I’ve been trying to do since that vote to ensure the United Kingdom leave the EU in a decent way and most associations I think are actually full of people like that and we have got to make sure that the Conservative party stays broad in its membership, very broad in those who support and vote for us, which is why we have got to get on with looking to the future and tackling other issues that people feel are very important to the United Kingdom, and keep as many people on board as possible. Political parties are fragile too and we shouldn’t forget that things can very easily fall apart. We should fight hard to keep the broad nature of our political parties, both the Labour party and Conservative party, for fear that they become more fractured, more polarised, which I don't think will do the country any good.

SR: And just finally before we let you go, there are lots of rumours in Westminster about the possibility of a snap general election, if there is a general election should Theresa May lead the Conservative party into it?

ALISTAIR BURT: Well firstly I am with Brenda from Bristol on this, ‘Oh no, not another one!’. I don’t see a general election now adding to the mix that we’re in at the moment as anything that would be likely to be helpful to the country. Whoever leads the Conservative party or whoever leads the Labour party or anyone else at the moment, we’re not in a phase for that and we need to stick to this task that we have in relation to the European Union. Settle that and then move forward, offer the public the wide range of choices that political parties do, that’s the best route forward and not to worry about an immediate general election or who leads anybody, let’s get on with doing this job in the first place.

SR: Nicely dodged. Should Theresa May lead the party into the general election?

ALISTAIR BURT: The Prime Minister has already said that she is expecting to leave after we get the first stage of Brexit going through, I don’t anticipate a general election before that is done. So probably the answer would be no, trying not to dodge your question.

SR: Okay, thank you very much for joining us this morning and for trying your very best not to dodge any questions. Thank you very much Alistair Burt.