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SOPHY RIDGE: Now the Conservatives might have outperformed expectations at the local elections but if the results were replicated at the general election they’d be unable to form a majority so is there really much to celebrate? Well let’s ask the Party’s Chairman, Brandon Lewis, who joins us now. So you lost seats, you lost councils, are you very happy with the results?

BRANDON LEWIS: Well I’ve said actually since Thursday it was a good night for us in the sense that we gained councils, we outperformed what people expected but it is very much stage one and …

SR: You gained some councils but you are down …

BRANDON LEWIS: We gained, I think we will have gained at the end about seven councils where we will have taken control either from Labour or from no overall control and we managed to hang on to councils in London that Labour said they would turn London completely red. We even technically gained Barnet back with a majority of 13 but I’ll be very clear about this, there is no complacency, we’ve got a big piece of work to do. This was just stage one of what will be a four year piece of work.

SR: Is the real risk here that you are piling on votes in your comfort areas, so older voters, white voters, voters in suburbs, in the shires where Labour is doing the same with metropolitan voters in cities. It feels as if it’s a kind of a deadlock, a stasis, you’ve got two losers, would you agree with that assessment?

BRANDON LEWIS: No, I actually think there are two points, if you like at two levels. I think first of all around the country in the last few months as I’ve been travelling around to all parts of the country I’ve seen both our volunteers, activists, candidates and the people in the doorsteps of all backgrounds, all ages, all parts of the country, supporting what we’re doing and actually getting involved and that’s a good thing. Actually if that was the case we wouldn’t have held on to the councils Labour expected to win like Wandsworth, Westminster and indeed, winning back Barnet.

SR: Actually if you look at the popular vote, you were quite lucky really to hang on to places like Wandsworth weren’t you?

BRANDON LEWIS: I don’t put it down to luck at all, I put it down to the really hard work of good local volunteers, good councillors and candidates who have been out there talking about the issues that matter to local people every day – low council tax, particularly in Wandsworth and Westminster, and good frontline services.

SR: Are you worried that although you’ve taken votes off UKIP away from the cities now the real challenge is taking votes off Labour and if you look at these results there is not really much evidence that you have been successful in doing that.

BRANDON LEWIS: Well again in London we gained seats from Labour in Hillingdon and in Barnet of course where we have got a majority of 13 now, but I’m very open about the fact that, as I say, we have got work to do over the next four years. This is just stage one in terms of our level of work and we’ve got to make sure we are talking to people, as I said, from all backgrounds, exactly as the Prime Minister said, delivering for everybody right across the United Kingdom.

SR: Now earlier in the show we played a film from Wandsworth where I went to go and talk to voters, to find out what they were feeling about the main parties, and there was one young man who really stood out to me with what he said and I’ll just read to you what he did say. He said, “As a young man, if I put myself online as a Conservative I just get shouted down. I can’t say openly I am a Conservative because if I do people will just say oh, that guy’s a Conservative, bring him down.” Do you think he is effectively saying that young people are ashamed to say that they are Conservative?

BRANDON LEWIS: Actually I recognise the challenge that he’s got but I see it in a very different way actually. What I’ve seen online, not just for people who want to say that they support the Conservative party but actually you see it even with moderate Labour MPs, the abuse that we see online and the sheer attrition from the hard left, which I think there is an argument to actually purposefully to try and put people off having proper robust debate. That’s why we were very clear about having a respect pledge. We need to have a robust debate but it has got to be with respect and what we do see online is this really kind of nasty, sometimes really quite personal and actually in some cases even calling for physical abuse and attacks, it is completely unacceptable and we’ve got to make sure all of us in public life are prepared to take that on, get involved in a debate both online and in the general public to create that airspace so more people can feel confident about coming forward and talking about what they care about.

SR: I want to come back to that point as well though because if people do feel confident to come out and say I’m a Conservative, is that because they are worried about the image of the party and how it’s seen? It’s not helped, is it, when for example Conservative councillors post racist or repost racist jokes on social media? Of course I am talking about a joke that was made, or posted again, by Rosemary Carroll from Pendle Council and I can’t even refer to what she said because frankly it’s pretty abhorrent. I mean that’s not helping your cause is it?

BRANDON LEWIS: Well what was posted, the actual… it was called a joke, I don’t see it as a joke, it is completely unacceptable. I must be very clear about this, there is a lot of misinformation being put out there at the moment and I think it’s right to get a chance to just clear it up, not just for her but actually more generally. This was a situation that occurred last year, actually in about June last year. Her position has been from the beginning that she accidentally posted something she wanted to delete. She was suspended by the party at that point for three months, the Labour run council which was of course supported by the BNP at the time, put a punishment in place. She has also been for diversity training since then and has been a Conservative councillor for some time so there is a lot in this situation not all the facts are out there.

SR: She said she accidentally posted something but she has come back, you have let her come back into the Conservative party.

BRANDON LEWIS: One thing we don’t do is that we don’t have double standards. First of all she has been through training, she’s apologised, she has had punishment, this was all dealt with locally at the time and I am going to be having a look at this but there is also a big contrast between where we are and Labour. First of all of course, the Leader of the Opposition’s position is he didn’t understand the mural, this is a councillor who has gone through punishment and training over it. The reality is when we have these issues we deal with them and she is a good example of that, that was dealt with the time and it was dealt with locally to be fair as well.

SR: Are you happy with how it’s been dealt with because I just want to go back to, it’s hard because you can’t actually refer to what was written but it really is abhorrent, repugnant. Are you happy with someone like that representing the Conservative party who, even it was an accident, posted it on her Facebook page?

BRANDON LEWIS: Well let’s be very clear, her position is it was an accident. She was suspended, she has been through diversity training, the punishment she had was endorsed by the Labour party and the BNP who supported them on that council at the time, so we need to be very clear about what the facts are but it is something I am going to be having a look at because we’ve been very clear from the beginning, in our party if we have an issue come up as we have done over the last few months, when it comes up we don’t do what the Labour party does and pretend it doesn’t exist, we will deal with it.

SR: So you are going to look at it again? Does that mean she could be kicked out of the party?

BRANDON LEWIS: I am not going to pre-judge any kind of due diligence work, it’s right that we go through this properly but as I stressed, this was dealt with locally last year and the position that was taken was one that was actually not just endorsed by it but actually of course the council’s position was the Labour party and the BNP so it is somewhat ironic, if not hypocritical, given the position they have taken in the last 24 hours.

SR: I want to talk to you now about Brexit and where the Conservative party is on that. Now it feels there are two ways of looking at the local election results, some people who support Brexit say it is an endorsement of the Conservatives position because they are picking up votes in areas that voted Leave. If you speak to Craig Oliver, which I did in the paper review, he says he actually sees it in the opposite way, you are not doing well in the Remain areas because you are supporting a Brexit that means leaving the customs union and the single market. What’s your opinion?

BRANDON LEWIS: I think the local elections had a wide range of issues. First of all to be eight years into government and be the largest party by some 3000-odd councillors I think is a very good achievement and I think it’s down to a couple of key things. When I’ve been travelling around the country what I’ve heard is that people on the doorsteps talking about particularly the situation that we have with Russia, with Syria, actually the way that our Prime Minister has shown really good clear leadership and they support that but I have to say time and again the issues people were focused on were the local issues that councils deal with that affect our lives every day, whether it was the failure of Labour to collect the rubbish in Birmingham, whether it was a ridiculously complicated bin collection system that people in Sutton were talking about or the potholes or the free car parking that Conservative councils are bringing in or time and again, the fact that Conservative councils deliver lower council tax.

SR: That’s what you want to talk about, I think perhaps people in your party prefer we did focus more on those Brexit machinations, it seems like every week there’s another row over where you should be on things like the customs union. Can you say definitely when the UK will be leaving the customs union under your government’s plan?

BRANDON LEWIS: As the Prime Minister has said, we will leave the customs union, we leave the European Union obviously next year, there will be an implementation period and that will be delivered as we said we would and there is no change to the position the Prime Minister has taken.

SR: When you were asked on Friday if we’d be staying in the customs union until 2023, you said that Cabinet would be making some decisions on that, have those decisions now been made?

BRANDON LEWIS: Well actually what I was talking about, I was being asked about the decisions and the conversations Cabinet are having linked to the meeting last week which I wasn’t at, not least because I was out on the campaign trail myself on Wednesday and I’m not on that committee but Cabinet meets on Tuesday, Cabinet meets every Tuesday and we will be discussing what we do in terms of that final deal that we will negotiate and my position has been the same from the very beginning. It is right that we respect the decision that was made in that referendum, that we do that in a way that delivers for the British economy so people can continue to have opportunities and job growth and I am confident that the Prime Minister and David Davis and the team will deliver that and we will do that and leave the European Union and the customs union as promised.

SR: Let’s be real, it is going to be really hard to stick to the timeframe isn’t it? Civil servants were asked to go away and come up with a plan for the customs relationship with Europe a year ago and they came up with the Customs Partnership, that now looks like that’s for the birds, we’re not going to be ready in time are we?

BRANDON LEWIS: Look, this is supposition on where we may end up over the conversations that are going on. I’ve always found it best not to get involved in hypotheticals and I have great faith in our wonderful civil service, having worked with them on things like the piece of work we were doing to deliver the settled status for European citizens, that they will be able to do this work and that we will be able to leave the European Union and the customs union as we have agreed and promised to do.

SR: Do you think sometimes Theresa May just needs to ignore the people around her Cabinet table, ignore the kind of cacophony on the back benches and just make some decisions and just get on with it?

BRANDON LEWIS: Well I think one of the great strengths of Theresa May as Prime Minister is she is probably going through one of the most complicated processes this country has seen, certainly since the Second World War in terms of leaving the European Union and what’s involved with that and in doing that she is bringing the party together, she is bringing the country together because obviously people in this country of all parties voted different ways, and I think the fact that she is working with people to do that in a really productive way – of course delivered in December the deal that people said couldn’t be done, again in March what people said couldn’t be done and that’s why I am very confident she will get the right deal for us as we go forward.

SR: Okay, very positive answer there. Brandon Lewis, thank you very much for your time today.

BRANDON LEWIS: Thank you.