ANY QUOTES MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: On Friday night the former Universities Minister Sam Gyimah became the latest member of the government to quit and subsequently backed a second referendum which must be music to the ears of our next guest, the campaigner Gina Miller, thank you very much for being on the show with us. Now before we get to talk about a second referendum I am keen to get your thoughts on the interview that we’ve just heard. Nick Boles, he’s proposing Norway plus if you like, staying in the single market. Is that something that you support?

GINA MILLER: I think anything is better than actually this withdrawal agreement that we’ve got which is just giving away sovereignty, giving away everything, it is the worst possible deal, I don't know how it took this long to get to here but the thing is, it doesn’t matter if it is Norway plus, a Plan B, the reality of where we are is that any option will require an extension to Article 50. We don’t have the time because in Nick’s suggestion of Norway plus, you have to negotiate with the members of ESTA, you’d have to go and look at the protocols in the EEA, it’s not just going for something we can take off the shelf and we don’t have the practical time to do that with 29th March looming.

SR: I guess it’s the same for Labour. We heard from Sir Kier Starmer there talking about a general election.

GINA MILLER: Whatever the options are right now, the reality is what counts and the reality is this vote is not going to get through Parliament in nine days’ time, so the Prime Minister, what is Plan B? Is it an election that she calls herself, is it an election that the Labour party wants to call a vote of no confidence, is it an alternative, is it sending her back? Whatever the alternatives are, other than no deal, would require an extension and this idea that there is no majority in Parliament for no deal, I must just point out that if there is no other option, because of the MPs allowing Article 50 to be triggered, no deal is the legal end game here, so the idea that …

SR: So they can’t stop it?

GINA MILLER: They can’t stop it because what they should have done, all these wranglings and everything that’s going on now, when I won my case this is when those debates should have been happening because too many MPs, so many of them triggered Article 50 without really thinking about the consequences of that, the actual legal end game of that trigger is no deal if there is no other option.

SR: I am interested in your thoughts about a second referendum, there is all this talk about the possibility of having another Brexit vote. Surely that would be a gift to the far right?

GINA MILLER: I don't think it would be and the reason I say that is because you have to, if you just clear away the bluster and the noise and all this noise about the will of people two years’ ago, look at what people are saying now and the polls, the travelling around the country that I’ve been doing for months and months and months, people are saying we actually do want a say, we do want to find out what’s going on, now we know more. This is not about leave or remain or anything like that, it’s 73% of the Labour party membership, it’s 112 Labour constituencies, it’s the 67 Conservative party who are on the border of their seats. There’s so much here where people are saying we want to have a say on this and decide what happens in the future. The other thing to point out on this is if they are now pushing for a general election from both parties, that is a waste in my view to go back to the people because an election should be about your full manifesto and your policies for all sectors of society, not to be just dominated by one issue.

SR: You talk there about the conversations that you’ve been having around the country and as you know on the show we try and get out and about as well and talk to people and I have to say I do think there is a large number of people in the UK who would feel utterly betrayed if there was a second referendum and the worst thing perhaps is I don't think they would even feel that surprised, it’s almost as if they expect it to happen …

GINA MILLER: ln my opinion it wouldn’t be because it would be what’s on the ballot paper and whilst it’s the MPs and Parliament who will have to decide that, it’s the Electoral Commission – if we get to that stage, which I think we will get to and we’re edging towards it as being the only plausible way out of this mess, this political mess – then I think actually no deal actually would have to be on the ballot. I think we would have to be fair to everyone and that’s why I believe it would have to be all three options because we couldn’t have a situation where people felt that they voted leave and they actually weren’t listened. We have to respect that vote.

SR: Just finally, you are a successful businesswoman and you decided to stick your neck above the parapet if you like on Brexit. You get some pretty vicious abuse on social media and elsewhere, I mean I’ve seen it even announcing that you were on the show. How does that make you feel? Why do you go through all this?

GINA MILLER: I’ve been a campaigner for nearly twenty or thirty years now and I’ve always felt that people have the right to be spoken to honestly and to be given information in a way they can understand to make an informed choice and that’s what I’m campaigning for. I think process matters, honesty to people matters and people having the information. I have even gone to the extent of launching a new campaign in September which is called End The Chaos because I thought this is where we’d be and our remit is to try and answer people’s questions. They are not being spoken to in a way that can give them an informed choice and help them understand where they are and surely that’s what we should all be doing and I’m going to carry on fighting for that. I’m going to carry on fighting for people to have the right to understand what’s going on.

SR: Okay, Gina Miller, thank you very much.