ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: Once again Ireland has been front and centre of the Brexit debate so let’s try and get some answers with Ireland’s Europe Minister, Helen McEntee, thank you very much for joining us on the programme this morning. Now we know that you don’t want to, we know that you don’t intend to but can you guarantee that if there is a no deal there will be no hard border in Ireland?

HELEN McENTEE: Well what we have done through this entire process is try to work with the EU led by Michel Barnier but with the UK also to ensure that we never get to this place where this is a no deal scenario and where we can even contemplate any kind of a return to a border on this island and so that is exactly what we have been doing. Negotiations have been ongoing for months and months at this stage and we believe that we have found the best way to ensure that no matter what happens, no matter what kind of a future relationship that we have, that we never return to borders of the past. The Withdrawal Agreement and the backstop within the Withdrawal Agreement is the way to do that but obviously without that, our own opinion and our government’s point of view is that there are still obligations, Brexit or no Brexit, the Good Friday Agreement is an international peace treaty, it was signed by the Irish government and political parties in the north but also the UK government are integral to that peace treaty and I’m sure the way to maintain the peace not just on this island but even further afield, is by ensuring that we don’t have a border and I believe that those obligations are there and must be fulfilled irrespective of the outcome of Brexit.

SR: I understand that you are working hard to make sure there is a deal, that the EU are very keen to [uphold] the obligations but I missed whether or not there was a guarantee that if there is a no deal there won’t be a border, a hard border.

HELEN McENTEE: If there is a no deal scenario and I hope that that’s not the case, I don’t believe that that will be the case but obviously we are less than 65 days out until the 29th March and there will be a number of votes taking place in Westminster next week, however if, again if we get a no deal scenario the UK will have its obligations to the WTO and the EU will have its obligations to protect the single market and the customs union, but separately to that the Irish government and the UK government both have obligations to ensure that we protect the peace process and an integral part of that is protecting an invisible border that essentially exists at the moment. So as far as we are concerned, we are not planning for a border, we have never been planning for a border because it is simply not something that we can countenance. There are obligations there and again we are not asking for something different, we’re not asking for something new, this has been the case from the very beginning of the negotiations which started probably about two years ago at this stage and there was a commitment given by the Prime Minister many, many times, last December, again in March, when she presented her Chequers paper and as recently as last week. So all we are asking is that those commitments are fulfilled and I think it is important to stress that even those who want to leave the European Union, those who say we should leave without a deal, that the UK should leave without a deal, have continuously said that they do not want to see a border return on this island so I think if we are all in agreement there is an onus on every single one of us but in particular the UK, because they are the ones who are leaving, to ensure that we do not have a border on this island.

SR: The thing I am slightly confused about is if in a no deal scenario you can’t countenance having a hard border, there must be a way of avoiding it and in which case, why do you need a backstop?

HELEN McENTEE: Well the backstop is there as an insurance mechanism and a policy. The backstop is there because of the red lines that the UK put down very early on in these negotiations. The UK have said that you are leaving the single market, you are leaving the customs union and so for us the Withdrawal Agreement and the backstop within it is the best way to address those concerns. However, if we find ourselves – and again this is an if and I am speaking hypothetically – if we find ourselves in a no deal scenario, it does not remove the obligations and the commitment that we believe that the Prime Minister made in the joint report and the statement in December of 2017, a very clear commitment was given at that time to make sure that we avoid a border and so we would expect the UK, and Europe have been very clear on this as well, they will do everything in their power to avoid a hard border. We will expect the UK to live up to their obligations not just from December ’17 but as part of the Good Friday Agreement. This is not just about trade, this is not just about customs, this is not just about the economy, this is about protecting peace on this island, this is about making sure that the scenes that we saw last weekend where a car bomb went off in Derry, where you had subsequent hoaxes and possible threats, that that does not start happening again because again this is not just the impact that it would have on the island of Ireland but we know looking back at the Troubles, looking back at 20, 30 years ago that it stretched much further than that. So there is an onus and an obligation. Of course it is very difficult, that’s why it took 18 months to negotiate the overall Irish backstop and what we have today but of course if the red lines were to change, if there were to be a different approach in terms of the future relationship, then obviously it would make things much easier in ensuring that we never have to use the Irish backstop. So all that we are asking now is that the UK fulfil the commitments that they made, not just in terms of the Brexit as a whole and the commitments to the Irish backstop but also to the Good Friday Agreement.

SR: Okay, I think you speak very powerfully there about the importance of making sure that we don’t go back to the problems of the past in Ireland with that border so I just wonder if I can try and work out if there is any compromise that you are prepared to make because of course Theresa May lost that vote by 230 votes, the worst defeat of any sitting government which is quite extraordinary if you think about it. Some MPs next week are going to be calling for a time limit to the backstop or perhaps a unilateral exit mechanism to the backstop, is that something that you could countenance if it meant you could still get over the line?

HELEN McENTEE: Well to suggest that we would compromise on the Irish backstop is suggesting that we would compromise on the leading requirement ensure that we protect the peace that we’ve had for the past 20 years. To put a unilateral clause in a backstop, to put a time limit on the backstop, it ceases to become a backstop or it ceases to be a backstop, it’s not an insurance policy, it’s not an insurance mechanism and that is why we need it, we need it to make sure that we protect the peace and while the vote might have lost by a significant amount, I absolutely don’t believe it was purely because of the Irish backstop. I’ve said many times before that I believe there were a lot of MPs who did not agree with the Withdrawal Agreement because of the fact that it kept them too closely tied to the European Union or not closely tied enough to the European Union or they wanted to leave without a deal. There are those who I know don’t want to leave at all and those who aren’t sure what they want yet but what we do know however is that the people in Northern Ireland, that the political parties, every single political party bar the DUP, want the Withdrawal Agreement and want the backstop within it. Industry sectors, whether it’s the farming community, whether it’s manufacturing, food and drink, they all support the backstop and we are very clear that if it becomes time limited or there is a unilateral clause where the UK can pull out on its own, it ceases to be what it’s supposed to be and that is the insurance mechanism to protect what we have fought so hard for on this island for so long. Twenty years is not a long time and again to go back to the weekend, it doesn’t take very long to go back to problems that we had in the past and that is what we are trying to avoid at all costs and I believe that’s what people in the UK want to avoid as well.

SR: I can’t help thinking there is a bit of a contrast between the amount of time we spend talking about Brexit and Ireland now and the amount of time we spent talking about it before the referendum and during the campaign and I just wonder if you think some politicians in the UK don’t really understand the complexities of the situation in Ireland.

HELEN McENTEE: Well I would say that I think before the referendum took place there probably wasn’t very much thought of Northern Ireland or Ireland, I’m sure there absolutely were those who understood and knew that there would be significant consequences but from an Irish point of view we absolutely understood this and that is why we don’t support that, we don’t think it is a good policy not just economically but the impact that this can have on the peace process. Before Brexit took place our own government put together a document, a working paper to identify the possible challenges that we felt would arise if Brexit were to actually happen and that’s obviously since developed, it’s evolved and there is a huge amount of work done since then but we were very clear from the outset that this would have, particularly if the UK were to leave the single market and the customs union, an extremely negative impact and an extremely negative impact on the Good Friday Agreement and all that is connected with that, the All Ireland economy, the areas of co-operation north and south ranging from health to social protection to education, there are about 142 and possibly even more but also an integral part of the Good Friday Agreement including citizens’ rights. So there is a huge amount at stake here and this is why we have said we are not willing to compromise but at the same time I think we have compromised throughout this process. The Irish backstop initially was specific to Northern Ireland and at the request of the UK it was then extended to a UK wide customs union so there has been compromise on both sides but in terms of cutting it off and having a time limit on it, it simply ceases to be what it is supposed to be and that is an insurance policy and mechanism.

SR: Okay, we’re out of time, thank you very much.

HELEN McENTEE: Thank you.