ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: This week I travelled to Mansfield, one of the key marginal constituencies that could decide the next election and I sat down with the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. I started by asking about that election which might not be too far away. So you are now on your third Conservative Prime Minister, Boris Johnson seems to be gearing up for an election, are you?

JEREMY CORBYN: Absolutely, I’ve got my summer campaign plan in place, we’ve got most of our candidates selected in all our marginal constituencies, we have many of our policy announcements in place, particularly the ones on the green industrial revolution and the green New Deal that we’re putting forward and working out more details on our health and social care policies but fundamentally it is about reducing inequality in Britain and about investing in good quality sustainable jobs for the future through the green energy revolution.

SR: Are you a bit worried about going up against Boris Johnson in an election? He has won in Labour territory before in London.

JEREMY CORBYN: Not in the slightest. We’ll go out there and we’ll make our case. I don’t get involved in personal abuse, I don’t make any personal abuse, I don’t do personal. As far as I’m concerned the issues are too serious. We live in a country that is more unequal than almost any other in Europe and that is becoming more unequal. There are many parts of the country where there has been no real investment since the end of the miners’ strike, where we are today in Mansfield as an example of that. We have to have a change of approach and it has to be about investment, it has to be about real opportunities for young people so they don’t go to university and come out with debt, they do get the choice, a real choice of an apprenticeship or a university education.

SR: We are in Mansfield as you say, somewhere that was Labour for 94 years before the Conservatives took it at the last election, how are you going to win seats like this back?

JEREMY CORBYN: Our candidate here, Sonya Ward, working really hard, all of our party members working really hard, taking that message out there. We don’t have to be a nation of food banks, I met somebody an hour ago who was organising an hunger holiday campaign in order to collect food to ensure that children who would normally get free school meals managed to get a lunch all through the school holidays. In modern Britain, 21st century, the fifth richest country in the world – that is simply wrong and it is these inequalities that have to be dealt with.

SR: So it is clear that you want an election so when are you going to make it happen? When are you going to call a no confidence vote in the Prime Minister?

JEREMY CORBYN: Parliament goes back in September, I think it’s at that point that we’ll look at the situation there but it’s also up to the Prime Minister what he decides to do as well because if he’s trying to take us out on a no deal Brexit at the end of October we will oppose that.

SR: So can you guarantee that you will call a confidence motion before we leave the EU in October?

JEREMY CORBYN: I can guarantee you this, we will do everything to prevent a no deal exit and we will do everything to challenge this government and we’ll do it at the time of our choosing.

SR: Okay, so when do you think the election is going to be then?

JEREMY CORBYN: Well an election takes about seven weeks from the point at which Parliament votes to hold it under the Fixed Term Parliament Act and two-thirds of all MPs have to vote for it but if the government puts down such a motion we will support it because we think that the government do deserve an election, not a government that doesn’t really have a majority, that has a deal made with the DUP some years ago and cannot win votes in Parliament. Theresa May was defeated more times than any other Prime Minister by the biggest majorities ever and Johnson has put together a Cabinet of ideologically extremely right wing people and the Leader of the House, instead of getting on with reforming Parliament is more concerned with apostrophes at the end of letters.

SR: Let’s look at Brexit shall we because when that election comes Brexit will be of the utmost importance to many people including people here in Mansfield which voted 70% to leave the EU. They are going to want to know what your policy is on Brexit so what is it? Are you now supporting a second referendum in all circumstances?

JEREMY CORBYN: Well I’ll say this, no deal we’ll oppose and we think people should have a final choice on it. They can have a vote then between remain and whatever option Boris Johnson decides to put to them at that time but I’d also say to Mansfield and to everywhere else, you’ve not had the investment you should have had, British governments have walked by on the other side and not invested in good quality jobs since the end of the coal industry but you also need a government that is going to invest in the future to reduce those inequalities. It’s a Labour government that will invest in the future and we need to maintain a trading relationship with Europe, a trading relationship for our manufacturing industry and for our food processing and food industries as well, also issues like medicine supply and of course the Northern Ireland border is a key issue and any deal that damages the Belfast Agreement, which is an international treaty, is simply not going to work.

SR: Okay, just to bring you back to my question, does Labour now back a second referendum in all circumstances?

JEREMY CORBYN: What we’d say is there’ll be a second referendum to make a choice between whatever deal is arranged and what the public want.

SR: Including a Labour deal if you are in power?

JEREMY CORBYN: Well if we are in power, yes of course, the same thing would apply because I want to make sure we get to the end of this process where we have a fixed position in this country. I have spent the last two years trying to ensure that we put forward the Labour view which was a customs union with the European Union, trade access and protection of rights, that was the one that got the best vote in Parliament but didn’t gain a majority. Theresa May’s proposals were roundly defeated on three occasions.

SR: So if you do want to see a second referendum in all circumstances, how are you going to campaign on that? You are a man who has been campaigning all your life so are you going to be campaigning for Leave or are you going to be campaigning for Remain?

JEREMY CORBYN: What we said is in the event of a no deal Brexit we will campaign to Remain.

SR: But what if Labour negotiates the deal?

JEREMY CORBYN: Well we have got to get into office first to negotiate a deal, we’ve got to win an election first, win an election and then we’ll reopen those talks with the European Union but at the moment the danger is a no deal exit on 31st October with all the problems that that brings.

SR: I understand that you are opposed to no deal but where my head starts to hurt slightly, I am still struggling to see exactly what is in Jeremy Corbyn’s heart when it comes to Brexit. I mean it is crystal clear what Boris Johnson wants, like it or not, it’s crystal clear what Jo Swinson wants, what does Jeremy Corbyn want? Do you want to stay in the EU or do you want to leave?

JEREMY CORBYN: Investment, jobs, trade and equality, both in or out of the EU I want those things but I go back to the point that …

SR: But it is different whether it’s in or out isn’t it? You can’t just say you want investment and opportunity in or out, it matters if we are in or out.

JEREMY CORBYN: What we propose is actually a very good deal, a bespoke customs union with the EU and the trade arrangements would have achieved those things but it didn’t go through Parliament, that’s important.

SR: So that’s your preference then?

JEREMY CORBYN: That is what we put forward and that obviously is why I put it forward because my issue is also uniting people in the country. My party is the only one that had significant numbers of people who voted both Remain and Leave in the referendum, my party represents people all over the country. We want to bring people together which is why I spent a lot of time listening to an awful lot of diverging views over this whole issue and we came up with the proposal that I put to the National Executive of our party which is what we have.

SR: You talk about listening, you talk about trying to unite people but is it not also a time for leadership? Don’t people want to know what you stand for?

JEREMY CORBYN: Leadership comes from listening. You listen to people, you take people forward with you rather than dictate to them.

SR: We hear a lot about what other people feel – Tom Watson, John McDonnell, Len McClusky speculating about people in your office – but this is why I’m saying the leadership question is crucial isn’t it? To stand up and say this is what we believe, this is what we’re going to do.

JEREMY CORBYN: I said there we will push for a referendum and there will be a decision made by the people of this country.

SR: Okay, now we need to talk about anti-Semitism and this is your first major interview since the Panorama documentary, I don't know if you watched it?

JEREMY CORBYN: Mm-mm.

SR: What did you think of it?

JEREMY CORBYN: I was upset at the feelings of some of our former staff, what they said. I was upset by the way the programme was characterised and presented and we have put in some complaints surrounding that. I am very clear there is no place whatsoever for anti-Semitism in our society, in our communities or in our party. Since I became Leader I asked – and she did it – Shami Chakrabarti to do a report into it and develop a process, when Jennie Formby took over as General Secretary as successor to Ian McNichol, I asked her to deal with it in a speedy and timely manner. We recruited more staff and we improved our processes, the processes are going through four times faster. I also recognise that where there is prima facie evidence of serious abuse, then there is a need for a faster process. I looked into that, put it to the Shadow Cabinet and the Parliamentary Labour Party and the National Executive of my own party last week and they agreed with me that there had to be a faster process which is now being developed into rules that will go before this year’s conference. We are very clear, we are not accepting any form of anti-Semitism in our party. We have also, by the way, adopted the definition on Islamophobia and any other form of racism is totally unacceptable, we are completely open about that and where it happens – and it has happened in cases of less than 0.1% of our membership – we deal with it.

SR: And just to look at some of the allegations that former members of the Labour party made in that documentary, they talk about effectively interference in the process and if you read some of what they said, Kat Buckingham had quit the party with nowhere to go and had a breakdown, Sam Matthews actively considered committing suicide, Louise Withers-Green was signed off with depression and anxiety. How do you feel when you hear that?

JEREMY CORBYN: I feel very sorry and very sad for them. The first thing I did when I became leader of the party was to ask senior staff what processes were available for staff support because of stress at work. Now this wasn’t about anti-Semitism, just the whole principle of stress at work, I feel very strongly about that and that support has to be there. Some of those people had to work very hard and were overwhelmed by cases, letters and so on and remember, our party membership virtually trebled …

SR: Did they feel undermined?

JEREMY CORBYN: Well they were being asked to work very fast on a lot of complex issues and in some cases they had to sift through a lot of things to find that actually the complainants sometimes weren’t actually even Labour party members.

SR: Can you say totally that since Jennie Formby became General Secretary there has been no interference by you or anyone in your office on any …?

JEREMY CORBYN: What we said is get the cases done as quickly as you can in a timely, fair and legally sustainable manner.

SR: Okay. Now what I don’t understand when I look at the anti-Semitism story, we have talked about it before, you have spoken about it in interviews before, it has been going on for years now – why don’t you just set up an independent process to deal with it? That would end this wouldn’t it? That’s what people have called for, that’s for example what the Board of Deputies and the Jewish Leadership Council called for, why don’t you just do it?

JEREMY CORBYN: Nobody else has an independent process in their organisations. What we do have is legal oversight of the process to ensure consistency in decision making and when the Equalities and Human Rights Commission concludes its report, we will obviously listen very carefully to what they have to say. I do think there has to be a legally robust process. We also have a degree of independence in the party, there is something called the National Constitutional Committee which is completely independent of me and the National Executive and they make the final decision.

SR: Do you take responsibility?

JEREMY CORBYN: I am the leader of the party therefore I must take responsibility for what happens in our party and I am absolutely determined our place has to be safe and welcoming, our party safe and welcoming to people of all faiths, all religions and all groups.

SR: Do you think some on the left have a blind spot on anti-Semitism?

JEREMY CORBYN: People in politics do sometimes cross the line and confuse issues and dip into anti-Semitic tropes and language. That’s why I’ve introduced an education programme with a substantial pack of education materials which has been sent out last week so that we say to people, just be careful on your use of language, it is not acceptable. Look at the history of the growth of racism in this continent over the last century and look now at the rise of the far right in central Europe and indeed in Western Europe and of course in the United States as well.

SR: Okay, now we’re talking at the end of a very busy week.

JEREMY CORBYN: I agree with you there, it has been a busy week!

SR: What we saw amongst other things is more MPs appointed to Cabinet from ethnic minorities than we’ve ever seen before. Admittedly it’s a pretty low bar but is that something you welcome?

JEREMY CORBYN: Well I welcome diversity of course and I welcome that our Parliament is beginning to look a bit more like the rest of the population does but it’s got a long way to go. After all in 1987 the first four black MPs were elected and it was quite a while before substantially more joined them. Our Shadow Cabinet is extremely diverse, our team is extremely diverse, our party membership is extremely diverse, our society is very diverse but you have got to start monitoring of all big organisations where you find diversity often at the lowest levels in any organisation and that sort of diversity reduces and diminishes the more you get to the top of it. It’s also about education, it’s about understanding, it’s about history so I am very proud that Dawn Butler, our Shadow Equalities Minister, has produced the ideas in the Emancipation Education Trust, so we can understand something, our children can understand something more about how the slave trade came about, how the slave trade was opposed and eventually how slavery was abolished.

SR: I just want to read you a tweet that was sent by Shadow Minister, Carl Lewis, towards James Cleverly who has been quite a time in the Conservative party. He congratulated him on his appointment and he said ‘I’m just sorry that you and other black members of the Cabinet had to sell your souls and self-respect to get there.’

JEREMY CORBYN: The Conservatives believe in Conservatism, they have been appointing their party, I’d leave it at that, I want diversity at all levels of our society.

SR: And he was also talking about things Boris Johnson has said that he thinks are racist. Do you think Boris Johnson is racist?

JEREMY CORBYN: Boris Johnson has said some awful comments about black children, about Muslim women and about people within our society and our community which I absolutely condemn. I hope he will understand the hurt that caused with the remarks that he made.

SR: Talking about diversity, we have had the first female Liberal Democrat leader appointed this week as well. Labour is now the only party that hasn’t had a woman leader, is that something you should be ashamed of?

JEREMY CORBYN: I’m not ashamed of it but there will be a woman leader in the future, I’m very sure.

SR: Would you like the next leader to be a woman?

JEREMY CORBYN: Listen, the one thing I’ve said is I’m not going to get involved in choosing them because I am very happy in the job I’m doing and I am very determined to win the general election so we get a Labour government but that Labour government will be gender balanced. There will be an equality or majority in the Cabinet of women and there will be a very diverse Cabinet around that table because we represent all parts of all communities in this country.

SR: And if that election isn’t until 2022, will you still fight it?

JEREMY CORBYN: I am fine, I’m fit, I’m ready, I’m raring to go.

SR: Jeremy Corbyn, thank you very much.

JEREMY CORBYN: Thank you.