ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SOPHY RIDGE ON SUNDAY

SOPHY RIDGE: Conservative party splits over Brexit of course are the backdrop to tomorrow’s budget. Earlier we heard from Jacob Rees-Mogg and someone who often takes a slightly different view is the former Cabinet Minister, Justine Greening, who joins us now. Thank you for being with us.

JUSTINE GREENING: Hello Sophy, hi.

SR: Now you’ve said previously that the Conservative party needs to dramatically change so what do you want to see in the budget?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well I think this is the most important budget in a decade. The Conservative party has just spent the last ten years sorting out the economic mess that the last Labour government left us …

SR: According to the Conservative party.

JUSTINE GREENING: That we can’t just be defined as a party that comes in and cleans up after the last Labour government. What we need to do in this coming budget is set out what our vision for the country is and it should be one around opportunity, social mobility and we need to be talking to a brand new generation of people in our country who may be 20 or 30 and all they have seen us do is try and get the economy back in shape. All they have heard from us is how we have had spending constraints but what we now need to do is tell them what we are actually about, which is about giving them more opportunities so that they can reach their potential and in doing so, help this country to reach its own potential.

SR: I want to just ask you about something you said at a fringe at the Conservative party conference. I think we can have a quick look at what you were quoted as saying, this is about the Treasury, you said: “It doesn’t have a framework for valuing investment in people, whether it is health or education or early intervention, that’s not seen or accounted for as an investment. Instead it has always been seen by the Treasury as a cost.” What did you mean?

JUSTINE GREENING: What I mean is what it sounds like, we’ll hear more roads investment tomorrow and of course that’s welcome but in the end what’s going to determine Britain’s success, whatever happens on Brexit is going to be people and it is the people who get in those cars, it is the people logging on through improved broadband and their skills that make the difference. What I was saying was that the Treasury does not value investment in people properly and because of that I don't think we get the right decisions out of that department and it now needs to fundamentally reform to make sure that in a knowledge based economy which is the 21st century we’re in, we actually get sensible decisions taken by the Treasury and sensible investment in people and, dare I say, you had a discussion with Frances O’Grady about Amazon. If we can better understand how we value investment in people we can also understand how we should deal with companies in terms of how they invest and deal with people and that could then not just feed through into spend but it could feed through into the tax system. That’s the type of reform I’m talking about and it goes alongside saying what do we need to do both in terms of investment but more fundamentally, how do we need to reform government to make sure that we unlock the potential of people around our country. This is a long-term structural problem that Britain has never tackled and we now absolutely have to get to get to grips with.

SR: I also pushed the Chancellor on Universal Credit, I know it is something that a lot of Conservative MPs are worried about and people effectively, some people are losing out as a result of those reforms. Are you worried about it and could you support and vote the current Universal Credit policy unless there’s reform?

JUSTINE GREENING: I am worried about it and I am one of those MPs saying to the Chancellor that I think it does need to be changed to make sure it can work on the ground and this is a good example of the Treasury reform that we need …

SR: Would you vote for Universal Credit if it isn’t changed?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well I think it’s going to be hard for many of us who are concerned about how this will play out in our local communities to support it without the changes it needs to be successful and I was about to say this is a good example of the Treasury reform I’m talking about. Five years ago decisions were taken in terms of resources for Universal Credit that we are now seeing playing out and as a result it is very likely that the Chancellor will have to put additional money in. Now that isn’t a sensible approach, we need a Treasury that can get things right first time, whether it is Universal Credit, whether it is schools funding, whether it’s NHS funding, that has a clear strategy that goes alongside that. So you just heard from John McDonnell, and it is the usual Labour message – more spending. No strategy, just more spending. We have to get out of this cycle of spending splurges followed by spending constraints, it’s not serving our country well and we need to work out how we can make sure we can have some proper long-term strategy for delivering more opportunity, for more young people in our country, helping them get on in their lives and in helping them be successful, that’s how we make sure that Britain is successful.

SR: You just mentioned John McDonnell, if the Conservative party doesn’t change as you clearly want it to, do you think Labour could win the next election?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well this is generally what happens. We come in, we take some difficult decisions as a responsible party in cleaning up the latest economic mess left by Labour. If we can’t set out a compelling vision for a country with equality of opportunity – and let’s face it, it is 31 years now since the Conservative party last won a landslide election – then we’ll do what we always do, we’ll just end up handing the keys back to Labour and that’s the cycle that we have to break.

SR: So you are on course to do that, do you think, at the minute?

JUSTINE GREENING: I think we have to now get beyond, if you like, fixing the nation’s finances to talking to a brand new generation of young people growing up in our country about what we in government have to offer them in terms of tackling the day to day issues and lack of opportunity that they see in their lives. There is one simple thing that the Chancellor could do on Monday, tomorrow – he could choose to allow young people paying rent, have that flow through to their credit score which would make it cheaper for them to get credit we all rely on, make it cheaper for them and easier for them to get a mortgage. That’s a simple measure that the Treasury could announce tomorrow that won’t cost a penny. Those are the kind of smaller things that could have a big impact but we need a much longer term strategy from Treasury and from government to show the public what we’re all about and that should be opportunity for all and equality of opportunity, particularly targeting those communities that have been left behind in our country.

SR: Is Theresa May the right leader to come up with that strategy?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well I don't think it is necessarily about a change of leader. What I’m saying is …

SR: But they are the ones that make the decisions though, aren’t they?

JUSTINE GREENING: What I’m saying is the Conservative party is nothing if it is not the party of opportunity. Monday is a chance for us to set out what we really mean by that and that’s what I want to see in the budget.

SR: Okay, Justine Greening, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on that.

JUSTINE GREENING: Thank you.