ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SKY NEWS, SUNDAY WITH NIALL PATERSON

NIALL PATERSON: The Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins was suspended by the party this week as allegations of inappropriate behaviour were about to be made public, allegations that were well-known to the party leadership. He’s the second Labour MP to lose the whip in as many weeks and separately another investigation has been launched into another Labour MP, Clive Lewis, allegations he denies. Well we are joined now by Labour’s Shadow Foreign Secretary, Emily Thornberry, a very good morning to you.

EMILY THORNBERRY: Good morning.

NP: How many complaints has the party received? How many active investigations are there currently into Labour politicians or party members?

EMILY THORNBERRY: I don't know, I don’t know what the exact number is, I’m not involved in the investigations. I can tell you what we’ve done, we’re in the process of setting up a body which we think will be really helpful, which will be independent and which will be there to give advice and support and can be a first point of call. The thing is, is that a lot of what Theresa May is talking about and the focus – and I understand why – but the focus is on Westminster and what’s happening in Westminster. Actually we want to be a bit more radical than that and we want to talk about what may happen within the Labour party anywhere so whereas it’s fine to set up some sort of body in relation to Westminster, we need to make sure that our processes that are already kind of pretty robust but they have got to be made stronger and that’s why we’ve got this new body in so that people can come forward and get support and put in their complaint to this independent body about people from the Labour party up and down the country if something like that has happened.

NP: Can we start though with the internal processes of the Labour party? Jeremy Corbyn and Andrew Gwynne last week where you were sitting suggested that those procedures were robust, enough to deal with what’s going on at the moment. The changes you are making suggest that that’s demonstrably untrue.

EMILY THORNBERRY: Yes, I would have thought that’s right, absolutely and we need to make sure that we’re now changing, I agree with you. I hope that this awful week will result in something different and something better coming from it and a step change to the way in which we treat women, particularly young women and young men within our political process because quite frankly what are we going to do without youngsters coming into politics?

NP: We will at some point in the future be in a position to review the changes that the Labour party is clearly making but at this point in time we are in a position to examine the way in which things have gone. Bex Bailey raised the issue of the internal complaints procedure with the NEC two years ago and it took her bravery in coming out and talking about her own personal experiences to force the Labour leadership into actually doing something about it. Why?

EMILY THORNBERRY: Well what I know happened is that she was attacked in a terrible way, that she came forward a couple of years later and spoke to people within the party and as we’ve heard, someone in the party thought that it was a good piece of advice to tell her to keep her head down and not say anything about it and that was appalling and of course we have to make sure, we are now looking into who that person was and what on earth they were thinking about and also into Bex’s allegations which need to be taken seriously. I would personally think they are probably a matter for the police but we need to make sure that this young woman is supported.

NP: But the Leader’s Office was aware of this, it was only when the media turned its attention to this story that the party …

EMILY THORNBERRY: I didn’t know that the media was aware of this … that the Leader’s Office was aware of an allegation had been made.

NP: The party were clearly aware that there was a problem. Bex Bailey had been pushing for the internal complaints procedure to be updated for quite some time, it took her talking about her accusation of rape for changes to even be discussed. For a progressive party I mean you’re not just letting down your members, you’re not just letting down your politicians, you’re letting down the young people who are flocking to your party in their droves.

EMILY THORNBERRY: Sure, sure.

NP: Can we talk about Kelvin Hopkins?

EMILY THORNBERRY: Well it is difficult for me to talk about specific cases, can I just … It is difficult given that we are investigating these matters. Just like it would be wrong for me to talk about Damian Green or anyone else, it would be difficult for me to talk about specific cases.

NP: But we can talk about what happened within the party. He has now had the whip suspended, as you mentioned there is an investigation underway but he was promoted to the Labour front bench in 2016, after he had been reprimanded by your whips. Why was he, a man who had an allegation of inappropriate sexual behaviour, known to the whips office on his record, why was he promoted to the front bench?

EMILY THORNBERRY: Now this is all part of the investigation. I’m really sorry, I don’t want to come on here and answer questions but I’m not in a position to … you can keep asking me but I’m not going to be able to …

NP: I am going to ask why no one went to the Leaders Office at the time of his promotion and said why on earth are we doing this? He’s had a reprimand, we know that his behaviour has been sub-par and still he was promoted. Now that does go to the Leaders Office on this occasion.

EMILY THORNBERRY: I don't know, I don't know, I didn’t know that … Rosie wasn’t still the Chief Whip at the time but if there had been a change of whips, then I don't know.

NP: The problem is that Jeremy Corbyn cannot say, cannot complain I knew nothing of this behaviour. Okay, Simon Danczuk was suspended from the party back in 2015, December 2015 at exactly the same time that the party knew about the allegations about Mr Hawkins. Now similar cases, entirely dissimilar treatment, one of them suspended who happened to be a critic of Mr Corbyn, another of them promoted to the front bench who just happens to be a key ally.

EMILY THORNBERRY: Now you can draw whatever conclusions you want at this stage but I am not in a position to be able to comment on these matters in detail because they are under investigation. I don’t want to … well I’m sorry, that’s what you’re getting. I mean I’m happy to go but I’m here to try and give you such assistance as I’m able to but I am not going to talk about internal discussions at the moment, where there is an investigation going on it is not for me – I may be being a bit lawyerly about this but whilst an investigation is going on, we let that investigation take its course and not to get involved in commentary on it or additional information or anything else. I am not going to be doing that, just like I’m not going to be casting aspersions in relation to any Tories or any other … I just can’t do it, I’m sorry. I appreciate you may want to push the story on but I am just not in a position to do that.

NP: It’s not about pushing the story on …

EMILY THORNBERRY: Well, whatever.

NP: I want to show you this. There are legitimate questions at the moment about the judgement of Jeremy Corbyn, I want you to take a look at this. [Film clip of Jeremy Corbyn] That’s the Leader of the Opposition, the Leader of your party being asked why he promoted someone who had been reprimanded for inappropriate sexual conduct, treating an entirely legitimate question with utter distain.

EMILY THORNBERRY: No, you could see it another way couldn’t you which is the Leader of the Opposition yet again being door-stepped, yet again people being outside his house and asking him questions and him not wishing to be involved in discussing matters that are being investigated.

NP: You knew about the allegations about Kelvin Hopkins years ago, he only had the whip withdrawn after press reports. Jared O’Mara, a similar situation, allegations made, put to the Leaders Office in September, the party only took action – well the party didn’t even take action when the press reported him, he stood up at a meeting of the PLP, apologised and was allowed to continue on the Equalities Committee. Again it was only after further press reports that he had the whip withdrawn. Bex Bailey, you only acted when the media got involved in all of this. Rather than treating the media with disdain, which Mr Corbyn clearly did in there, he should be owing us a debt of gratitude.

EMILY THORNBERRY: I think that the people who we owe a debt of gratitude to are those who have come forward with these allegations and who have been brave in the way that have. I think that some of the people who have come forward, you have seen a complete character assassination going on in the media, so don’t start virtue waving at me. It seems to me that we should be looking at the victims of this and we should be making sure that our parties respond appropriately and make sure that we …

NP: All the political parties as you suggested at the beginning.

EMILY THORNBERRY: And the parties need to ensure that we put processes in place where people are given proper support and where we can change the culture. Let’s not get involved in a phoney row about this, I want to make sure that …

NP: A phony row?

EMILY THORNBERRY: I want to make sure that my party, that this sort of behaviour does not happen in my party. I am ashamed of what’s been going on and I want us to do something about it and we will do something about it and we do something about it in parliament as a workplace, as parliament can be a workplace and we can have processes there but I want stuff happening actually in my party so that where there are allegations that happen at party events, as Bex has said happened to her, that actually there is a process there as well. That people are supported properly, that there are proper discussions and people are not being told ‘Keep your head down dear, don’t say anything’, that the party actually supports people and gives people appropriate advice, which is why we are now going to have an independent body. Now you can try and cast aspersions in relation to the party as much as you like, I cannot go into details in relation to allegations of individuals at the moment because there are allegations that are outstanding and being investigated.

NP: On your brief, you are soon travelling to Israel and Palestine – I’m sorry to shift but I do want to speak to you about this.

EMILY THORNBERRY: It’s all right, we are not going to get anywhere so …

NP: I’m not so sure. I mean you attended a dinner this week with Benjamin Netanyahu, Mr Corbyn wasn’t available to attend. Do you think we are further from a two state solution than we have been for quite some time?

EMILY THORNBERRY: Yes, I’m afraid we are.

NP: So what is the solution?

EMILY THORNBERRY: The solution is I think that … You know, when you talk to people behind closed doors, politicians behind closed doors, most of them know what a two state solution looks like, they have been talking about it for decades now. What we need is for people to expend a bit of political capital, to be brave, to take the leap in order to be able to move this process onwards but instead, in the meantime, we have incitement on both sides, we have the continual building of settlements and we seem to be moving into a situation where … What we need to have is two viable states and the more settlements that are built within the Palestinian side of the border, the less viable Palestine becomes and the more attacks that there are on Israeli people from the Palestinian side, the less trust there is from the Israelis so it needs to stop. It would be fantastic to have some leadership from the Americans at this stage but whether we are going to get it or not is a moot point. So the Balfour Declaration it seems to me, actually the 100th anniversary reminds us that British politicians can make a difference, that we can show some sort of world leadership and it seems to me that the 100th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, which did talk about making sure we respected the rights of both, it’s about time we recognised the Palestinian state. If we could do that for the 100th anniversary.

NP: Isn’t the simple truth that no matter what we say to the Israeli Prime Minister at dinners or diplomatic functions or whatever, they continue to build, the continue to build and there is nothing we can do about it.

EMILY THORNBERRY: Well I think there is something that can be done about it and in the end, the conversation begins I think with a two state solution is actually also in the interests of Israelis who want there to be a democratic largely Jewish state. You cannot have a one state solution that is a Jewish democratic state because it’ll be majority Palestinian and there will always be a minority of Palestinians within an Israeli state and their rights need to be upheld but to continue to build in the way that they are – actually I think that the current Israeli government is letting down the Israeli people because they are driving a coach and horses through the possibility of a two state solution.

NP: That’s a point that is being made by a number of Israeli citizens themselves.

EMILY THORNBERRY: Absolutely.

NP: Emily Thornberry, many thanks for being with us, I appreciate it.

EMILY THORNBERRY: No problem.

NP: Just one clarification, during my conversation with Emily Thornberry I suggested that the Leaders Office had been made aware of complaints against Jared O’Mara in September, in fact the allegations were put to the Labour Party Press Office not directly to the Leaders Office.