ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO SUNDAY WITH NIALL PATERSON, SKY NEWS

NIALL PATERSON: In Alan Milburn’s resignation letter he praised the Education Secretary’s commitment to the cause of social mobility but continued that it has become obvious that the government as a whole is unable to commit to the same level of support. The Secretary of State for Education is of course Justine Greening who joins me now from Westminster, a very good morning to you Ms Greening.

JUSTINE GREENING: Morning, how are you?

NP: Very, very well indeed but I’m wondering about you though. I mean you’ve made social mobility your top priority, today your Social Mobility Commission resigned en masse saying there is little hope of this government making progress. There are ringing endorsements aren’t there and then there is Alan Milburn.

JUSTINE GREENING: Well I’m sorry that Alan’s taken the action he’s taken, his term had come to an end actually so we just want to make sure we get some fresh talent into the Social Mobility Commission but I agree with him how important this area is. It’s a huge passion for me within the Department for Education to really drive social mobility, to drive equality of opportunity. What I don’t agree with Alan on is the fact that we are doing a huge amount across government so whether it is in my own department where we’re seeing school standards getting better – last week we heard that 1.9 million more children are in better primary and secondary schools now than in 2010; whether it’s looking at the technical education reforms that we’re bringing through and T Levels, really mobilising business to give more opportunities to young people on their doorsteps. There’s a massive amount going on across government, you look at the budget the week before last on housing, stamp duty cuts for first time buyers, actually we’re doing a lot to make sure that young people can get on the right track and make the most of their potential but there’s a long way to go and this isn’t a country where they have equality of opportunity but we are setting about making sure that over time we put that in place for the first time.

NP: Sure, so you weren’t then personally pushing for Alan Milburn’s term as Chairman to be extended?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well I’m not going to get into the discussion …

NP: That sounds like a yes to me.

JUSTINE GREENING: Well Alan’s term has come to an end so what’s important to me is we get some fresh blood in but I am also saying that I don’t agree that we’re not taking significant steps across government because we absolutely are and we are seeing the fruit of that effort already bearing results so if you look at the attainment gap, in other words the difference between how well more disadvantaged children do compared to their better starting peers, actually that is closing now in schools so we are moving in the direction but as Alan sets out today quite rightly, there is a very long way to go and we need to really make sure that the fruits of these reforms are being felt in the communities where we need to see change happen the most.

NP: A long way to go is putting it one way, Mr Milburn said this: “The government is understandably focused on Brexit, it does not seem to have the necessary bandwidth to ensure that the rhetoric of healing social division is matched with the reality.” I mean Theresa May made that speech on the doorstep of Number 10 at which she put social mobility at the centre of her government. I’m told that you had that framed and mounted on the walls of your office, is that hanging slightly crooked today?

JUSTINE GREENING: No, I don't think so. I agree with Alan that we’ve got a long, long way to go but if you look at the announcement we are making today on mental health, tackling one of the main barriers actually that often holds back young people from doing their best and reaching their potential, more investment to really support mental health provision both inside but also alongside schools, more training for schools in terms of being able to take preventative action to help young people if they have the beginning of a mental health challenge, but set in the broader context I think we are moving in the right direction. There is a lot of work going on, look at the opportunities areas work where the Department for Education is on the ground working inside schools to increase standards but also with communities and businesses to raise aspirations and set sights high, there is a huge amount of work going on. It is a generational challenge, there is no doubt about that and I don't think any of us should accept a country where you have a different shot of being successful purely because of where you are growing up or your background. We don’t fix that overnight but I think we’re moving in the right direction.

NP: Indeed, as you say a generational challenge. We should say of course that the Conservatives have been in power since 2010 and frankly much of what has been said today could have been said back in 2010 about social mobility, however the reason Mr Milburn gives, and he says it is understandable, is that there is a focus in government on Brexit. With Conservatives now a minority with people under the age of 45, do you think the Tories have got a fundamental problem with selling the PMs take on Brexit to the public?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well I think she is about to go to Brussels for an important negotiation later this month but actually for me I think Brexit is an enabler for how we make sure there is opportunity everywhere for young people. I think it really is focusing minds not only within government of why we need to make sure we are unlocking the potential for every single person in our country but also business. We held a Skill Summit in the Department for Education only last Thursday about how we can make sure that business is really partnering with government to offer the opportunities that young people want on their doorsteps and if we are going to plug the skills gap that we’ve got, that we’ve had for many, many years in this country, it will take not just the reforms to policy, on introducing T Levels and apprenticeships, but also businesses coming with us on that journey to really be part of the solution for young people. I think we have got some way to go but I really do feel the building blocks are there now. We will only achieve this equality of opportunity that I want to see in our country if people can work together and focus on that common aim.

NP: Someone who also has a distance to go, if he wants to come here that is, is the US President, Donald Trump. Should he be afforded a state visit with all the trappings, given what he has done this week which is in essence amplifying the views and public profile of a far right fascist organisation?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well I think everybody has said by and large that President Trump was wrong to retweet the …

NP: But should he have a state visit?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well I think we need to see it in the context actually of the broader relationship our two countries have, America and the United Kingdom.

NP: He could visit without meeting the Queen is my point.

JUSTINE GREENING: I was going to say there is a real longevity to it, I think Presidents come and go and I think we should focus on the broader picture of that important relationship, the fact that America is one of our greatest allies but we should also reflect on the fact that whatever you may think, anyone’s personal view of President Trump, he is the elected head of the US so I think it’s important that we maintain a relationship with America, with the United States. We don’t agree with the tweets that he did over the past several days and we’ve made that very clear.

NP: Some behaviour can be categorised as wrong, included within that one presumes is viewing pornography at work.

JUSTINE GREENING: I don't think that’s acceptable, I don't think most employers would think that’s acceptable and of course there are clear laws around the nature of viewing pornography more generally.

NP: But in terms of Damian Green – actually let’s stick with the hypothetical because we know Mr Green’s position in all of this, what would be the internal procedure at your department if a member of your staff was found accessing pornography?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well there are clear rules for all employers, including the public services so those would kick into action, as they would with any question around employee disciplinary procedures.

NP: The question now is whether or not your Cabinet colleague has lied isn’t it? His close ally Crispin Blunt made the same point on Friday, if he is proved to have lied about any of this now, this is actually in fact separate to the issue of watching pornography at work, if he is proved to have lied he has to go doesn’t he?

JUSTINE GREENING: Well there is a Cabinet Office review into all of this underway, I don't think it is either helpful or particularly sensible of me to pre-empt what that will come out with.

NP: I’m not asking you to pre-empt, I am just saying he would have to resign.

JUSTINE GREENING: But as you pointed out, Mr Green has been clear about his stance on this and he has made that clear in the past and I am sure Damian will continue to be firm in what he said.

NP: Justine Greening, lovely to see you, thanks very much for being with us.

JUSTINE GREENING: Thank you.