ADAM BOULTON: The head of NATO is in London today for talks with David Cameron ahead of the summit in Chicago later this month. Money is foremost on his mind, how to persuade donor countries to pay up for an Afghan operation that is winding down. This morning I spoke to Secretary-General Rasmussen and began by asking him if it was fair to say that NATO was now trying to make the best of a bad job in Afghanistan.  

ANDERS FOGH RASMUSSEN: No, actually I think our operation has been a success and will be a success. We have seen progress in Afghanistan. Obviously there are a lot of challenges, I will not paint an over optimistic picture, but we have seen a decline in the number of enemy attacks during recent months, we have seen progress in the development of the Afghan society and we are on track when it comes to the hand-over of lead responsibility for security to the Afghans so by the end of 2014 we will hand over full responsibility to the Afghans.   

AB: But even President Obama seems to accept that the Taliban, who were if you like the enemy or the hosts of the enemy back in 2001, are likely to play a role in the future government of Afghanistan.   

AFR: Well we don’t know, that will very much depend on the Afghans themselves.   We have said from the outset that a politically negotiated solution is possible, why not give it a try, but there are certain conditions to be fulfilled and first of all that this process must be led by the Afghans themselves. Secondly, that groups and individuals involved in that reconciliation process must abide by the Afghan constitution and must respect human rights including of course women’s rights and finally they must also denounce violence and cut ties to terrorist groups.  

AB: It must be a bit frustrating to you though that there is a bit of a race for the exit underway from countries like Britain and America and then if President Hollande were to be elected in France, he said he’s accelerate the withdrawal of French forces.   

AFR: Actually it is not a rush for the exit, we are in the midst of a process of handing over lead responsibility to the Afghans in a very well-co-ordinated process. Right now around half of the Afghan people live in areas where the Afghan security forces have taken lead responsibility and this process will continue.  

AB: In the meantime of course casualties are continuing to be taken. If you are, as I’m sure you do, are talking to the families who have lost soldiers in NATO forces in Afghanistan, what are they dying for?  

AFR: Never forget that the main reason why we are in Afghanistan is to prevent the country from once again becoming a safe haven for terrorists that could use Afghanistan as launching pad for attacks against Europe and North America and in that respect we have been quite successful. You haven’t seen major terrorist attacks launched against Europe and North America since we started the military operation in Afghanistan.  

AB: After 2014, once the combat troops have been withdrawn, will it still be a NATO operation in Afghanistan and if so, what will it be doing?   

AFR: Yes, there is a clear not only understanding but also an agreement that after 2014 we will continue a training mission, we will continue to train, advise, give assistance to the Afghan security forces to make sure that they maintain the capability to have full responsibility for the security.   

AB: And to some extent you are trying to raise money. We have heard that the British government is going to give £17 million a year to the Afghan government to maintain their security forces, how much do you need in total?   

AFR: Well the planning assumption is that a long term sustainable size of the Afghan security forces will be equivalent to a total bill of around $4 billion US a year and in Chicago we are going to discuss that and I feel sure that NATO allies and ISAF partners will pay a fair share.   

AB: £17 million from the Brits, is that a fair share of four billion?   

AFR: I am not going to …   

AB: It sounds like you’d like a bit more?  

AFR: Yes, well, all contributions are highly appreciated and welcomed.   

AB: Do you get depressed though when you look at the levels of military spending in countries like Germany and most of continental Europe who don’t really seem to be shouldering their share of the burden, particularly when you look at the United States which is beginning to cut back?   

AFR: Well the Chicago summit will be a clear demonstration of allied solidarity and commitment to provide the necessarily military capabilities in the years to come, we will set a clear goal and …   

AB: But the Europeans don’t spend what they ought to though, do they?   

AFR: Well it is an economic reality, you’re right, but defence ministers are faced with declining defence budgets so the only way in which we can acquire the necessary military capabilities in the future, faced with declining defence budgets, will be to pursue a new approach – more multi-national co-operation, we call it smart defence because it is a smarter way of spending defence money. Instead of going for purely national solutions, countries should co-operate, pool and share resources then together they can acquire assets they couldn’t do on their own.    

AB: Some would say that that’s countries that won’t spend riding on the backs of countries which will spend, which includes the United Kingdom to a certain extent.   

AFR: The UK and France have agreed to acquire a number of defence capabilities in the future in co-operation, realising that it would be difficult to do it on an individual national basis. That’s an excellent example, it could be expanded to other countries and other areas.   

AB: How worried are you that the situation in Syria will lead to Turkey fully invoking Article Five and basically asking its NATO allies to come to its aid against the Syrian government of Assad?   

AFR: Obviously we are monitoring the situation closely because what is going on in Syria may have an impact on Turkey, one of our allies but so far Turkey has not raised any question in NATO as regards Article Five. I think when it comes to Syria the right solution would be a solution based on the Annan plan and I strongly regret that it seems that the regime in Damascus does not comply with that plan.   

AB: Thank you very much indeed.   

AFR: You’re welcome.