ADAM BOULTON: The American Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Louis Susman, is stepping down at the end of this month after four years. I went to speak to him yesterday about the special relationship between Britain and the US and the state of the two countries as he prepares to go home.   Ambassador, one of your earliest engagements in Britain was at the Last Night of the Proms where you waved the Stars and Stripes and the Union Jack together. Is that the role of the American Ambassador do you think? 

LOUIS SUSMAN: Well I’d like it to be the role of the American Ambassador but I must tell you that events took over and the role of the American Ambassador here is to do everything we can to be working with this government together on our common objectives and whether that’s constantly nurturing the special relationship or in economic terms but the waving the flag at the Proms was a lot of fun but it was also not the key reason I’m here. 

AB: And how has the United Kingdom struck you? What do you think is its role in the world, is it diminishing in its importance? 

LS: I can’t imagine this relationship being any stronger. The President himself said publicly that it is as strong today as it was with Churchill and Roosevelt and Thatcher and Reagan. That being said, we want to be sure that the United Kingdom has a loud voice with us on all the issues around the world, including Europe, and our ability to have defence in NATO. 

AB: Because there is now this sense that under this President, the President you serve, Barack Obama, the United States is taking a step back and it does want France and Britain, particularly in the Middle East, to take a stronger role because it’s less important to you. 

LS: America is not going to diminish its role in the world, we’re not stepping back, we’re not isolationist but we’re also not going to go into wars that don’t make sense. If you remember what President Obama said about Iraq, he wasn’t against wars, he was against dumb wars. 

AB: What about Syria though where clearly Cameron and the French would like to start arming the rebels there? 

LS: Well our position is very clear, that we are providing a lot of help, non-lethal help. We are concerned that if you arm the opposition, who are you arming? There’s the [al-Nusra] Front which is Al Qaeda and we don’t know to what extent they’ll be shooting at each other or shooting the Assad regime so we vet these people all the time just on surveillance help so at this point in time we don’t think it’s in our best interests to arm them. It is in our best interests, short of that, to help in any way we can because we would like to see the civil war come to an end. 

AB: Have you been aware of, not a majority but a significant tide of anti-Americanism here in Britain following I suppose the fallout from Iraq and Afghanistan? 

LS: I’ve been blessed. This President is so popular over here that it has fallen out on no [lack] of anti-Americanism. He would be the first to admit that there are many things he wished he could have moved along faster, i.e. the Israeli-Palestinian situation as the best example but we had our own economic problems which we’re coming out of now and we have a Congress which many people would say is dysfunctional. We have partisanship which is pretty intent so I think the President would be the first to admit there were issues he wishes he could have been more effective on but on the same token I was fortunate enough to be with him last week, there is nothing more liberating than a President that doesn’t have to run again and I think you’ll see a more aggressive stance in many areas. 

AB: What do you think of the quality of British political leadership? I mean you have picked the leaders on the Democratic side for a long time. 

LS: Well one of the things they teach you when you come over as Ambassador is we don’t get involved in domestic British politics. All I can say is that President Obama and Prime Minister Cameron are very close. I would say if there is a major, major issue it is the first call and while President Obama had a rough election and came out ahead, I’m sure Prime Minister Cameron will have to deal with his economy at his election and that will determine everyone’s leadership, on the opposition side it’s the same thing.  

AB: We did get some pretty high level unusual American comments when David Cameron decided to hold a referendum on the future of Europe if he is re-elected. One gets the sense that America thinks that’s a mistake for Britain to re-open that. 

LS: I think from our viewpoint it’s something that won’t help us, not without speaking for the United Kingdom. We believe strongly and we’ve said this, the President has said it, I said it in my first interview over here four years ago, it is in America’s interests to have a strong EU, it’s the key to trading and to certain diplomatic matters and intelligence matters and military matters and for our best ally not to be a strong voice there and not to be there, frankly we don’t think it’s in our interests but that’s going to be up to the British people to decide.  The American people feel we would like to see them stay in. 

AB: What about the British interests? 

LS: British interests? Well they are going to have to make that decision themselves. My personal opinion is that when you have 50% of your trade with the EU there’s some big questions you have to answer. 

AB: Also during your time there has been disagreements over things like extradition, criticism of America on human rights. Do you think we have reached a point now where the centuries long commonality of philosophical approach on things like civil liberties is now diverging? I mean, in another way we’ve had the press regulation matter. 

LS: Well that’s about three questions in one, my friend. I would suggest to you that there has been nothing that I have seen happen in four years that would cause a breach or a divorce of the special relationship. That being said, we don’t agree on everything. I would say if you had asked me one of my disappointments in my Ambassadorship it was in the extradition area, in the forum area where they were tabling something on [forum bar] and quite frankly on the Al-Magrahi situation. We didn’t agree, it was a different government at that time but that’s not a divorce, that’s not a breach and in terms of – what was your last part of that question? 

AB: Press regulation. 

LS: Press regulation. You’re talking to a man that strongly believes in a freedom of the press and while I have seen great apparent violations of ethical behaviour, I am strong on freedom of the press and I just hope that whatever comes out, it doesn’t become an inhibiting factor for the freedom of the press. 

AB: It wouldn’t happen in America, would it? 

LS: You never know what would happen in America but I don't think so. 

AB: Finally, what about the economic situation? We have the perception here that America slowly is recovering, it’s back in growth, we’re clearly not. 

LS: Well I’m thrilled to be able to tell you that we have growth in America. We did 3% last year, we’ll do two plus this year, our manufacturing is booming, cars and construction, immense consumer area, people are spending money, not spending money, unemployment is coming down a bit too slowly so we feel comfortable in that we’re recovering. When you look at the economic numbers here, which I do, they’re not very bright and you hope that there will be a growth somewhere which will then produce tax revenues that will be able to reduce the debt but … 

AB: I mean you’ve been a banker, what would you invest in in Britain?  

LS: You know, I think the concept of how do you get growth going, what did America do? We did a stimulus plan, maybe they’ll have to do a stimulus plan, maybe the infrastructure efforts will have to be stronger but the present situation is, I believe and from a banking and economic point of view, that you can’t cut your way 100% out of a recession and you have to have some balance of revenues and cuts and we’ll have to see how it works out. I would say this, which I’ve told the Chancellor, we’re rooting for you. Okay, anybody that can reduce their debt in the next period of time to that level that he’s talking about is going to have a strong economy but the question is how you get there and how much pain you have and the concern that they must have is they’ve got to see some light at the end of the tunnel come 2015 because to go into any election promising austerity to 2018 is a difficult situation. 

AB: And what does he say back when you say that? It sounds like you don’t have much faith in Plan A. 

LS: Well he agrees that they need to have growth, they just have different concepts of what creates growth. 

AB: And finally, what is your departing … your envoi we call it very pompously in English, your departing thought on your time as Ambassador? 

LS: I have to tell you, I’ve been everywhere in this United Kingdom, I’ve been to Scotland seven times, Wales, Northern Ireland, towns all through England, some I didn’t know existed and I can tell you, there is a wonderful resiliency to the British people, there’s a warmth, there’s a great confidence and I feel very strongly that other than my country, this is the best country in the world. 

AB: Thank you very much. 

LS: Thank you, Adam. 

AB: The outgoing US Ambassador Louis Susman speaking to me yesterday. His replacement is due after the summer.