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Jeff Randall - What about the future of Rangers football club, will it be saved from liquidation?

Sir David Murray - The preferred route would be that the administrator can do a CVA, there is no doubt about it.

Jeff Randall - That’s a voluntary arrangement?

Sir David Murray - A voluntary arrangement and then an agreement would be made to a payment in the pound. It’s horrendous what’s happening every day to the club we all care so much for and I'm partly responsible, I'm not trying to renege on me, I was the captain of the ship that handed it over to somebody. Let’s hope a CVA can be done and the right people take over the club at the helm, as we know. Rangers has got such a proud tradition – the least amount of managers, the greatest amount of trophies, it’s a very, very sad thing to see and I just hope whoever comes in can get their hand on the tiller because not just me but in the past there was always a spine to Rangers, there was myself, the board, there was Walter, there was Martin Bain, there was Goughie, there was David Weir, there was always a sort of stiffness about Rangers and Alastair at the moment is on his own, he’s like a rudderless ship and there is nobody there to get hold of that tiller and help him, and it’s very difficult …

Jeff Randall - This is Alistair Johnston?

Sir David Murray - Alistair McCoist. He’s having to do things that are out with the total remit of a football manager, ask players to take massive wage cuts etc, etc but all credit to him and he will go down as a legend for his non-football performance on this occasion and he’s been very good in everything he’s done.

Jeff Randall - Given that the HMRC case is still outstanding, £49 million, and the Ticketus money has gone missing, £20 million plus, how can any potential buyer make sense of acquiring Rangers?

Sir David Murray - There is no sense until we know where we are. The amount is £35 million but they’ve hit us with fines and interest etc, etc, and the final result on that will be whatever that may be, but football clubs, whether we like it or not, are not for widows and orphans. Football clubs are the industry we’re in and if you go into football clubs, I remember some well known journalist said a lot of chairmen leave their brains outside, and I look back and in my 22 years we had a fantastic 15 years of great success and we won 35 trophies or something and we should never forget that. The end has ended up being not clear at all and I accept my share of that responsibility, I'm never going to say anything different, and I wish it had been different, but the fact of the matter is whoever takes over, hope by the CVA route, a sensible and logical solution because I read in the Chamber of Commerce and the Fraser Valens Institute that Rangers and Celtic is worth £100 million to the Scottish economy. That doesn’t mean if Rangers disappear it’s going to be £50 because of Celtic, the Old Firm creates jobs, environment, you take Rangers’ turnover, £50 million a year, wages, PAYE, HMRC, VAT, Rangers is contributing probably £20-25 million alone to the HMRC. Now, there are 40,000 people on average go and watch Rangers, 10,000 might go and support Partick Thistle, but you're going to lose 30,000 people who put money in to the economy. So there are a lot of factors to be assessed here and hopefully a sensible solution. I don’t think Craig Whyte has helped by intimidating HMRC by not paying PAYE, that’s just got their back up and you can understand that. We’ve run an EBT which so many others have run but he has what looks like purposefully avoided paying any tax so he’s been paying the players’ wages and the staff, and taking the tax off them and not passing it over to the Inland Revenue. Well, I never saw that one coming, I don't think anybody saw that coming. I can be criticised and I'm the primary one to be criticised for handing the club over to him but nobody in their wildest dreams ever thought that would happen.

Jeff Randall - Many overlooking Rangers, including those at Celtic have said look, the SPL doesn’t need Rangers football club, it can survive and prosper perfectly well without. Is that true?

Sir David Murray - Well, they're bound to say that, I’d have thought.

Jeff Randall - But is it true?

Sir David Murray - It’s a good moment for them to take the high ground.

Jeff Randall - But is it even a good moment for Celtic football club, doesn’t Celtic football club need Rangers?

Sir David Murray - No I don’t think so. I think where they've got it wrong is I wonder how many season tickets they’ll sell because a lot of people buy a season ticket because it’s Rangers. If it becomes a one horse race, if you look at any league that’s a one horse race, the crowds will dwindle. It’s not my position to talk about Celtic football club but let’s take in general, a typical Saturday if Rangers go up to Aberdeen and they take 3-4-5,00 fans, how many they take, the expenditure and petrol, the economy, tickets, that will all be lost. You're not going to regain that with a club coming in. I then think the Sky deal, the TV deal is all about four Rangers and Celtic games, with no disrespect it’s not about Motherwell against that, and that’s not criticising Motherwell at all. So I think that add on, the domino effect of this I think will make Scottish football greatly reduced of interest level, media level and fans turning up for games.

Jeff Randall - Inevitably, would it mean that Celtic would have to leave, would have to go somewhere else, they couldn’t play on their own?

Sir David Murray - They’d probably like to, we’ve also wanted to but I don't think that the English … I've been involved in meetings years and years ago with the English authorities, do they need Rangers and Celtic, but the teams at the bottom, turkeys don't vote for Christmas. They're not going to want Rangers and Celtic. I thought years ago the sensible thing would have been to put Rangers and Celtic in lesser divisions and let them work their way up, and throw money into the lower leagues and give some money back, but that didn't happen. But you know what, I'm watching everybody at this minute in time and everybody has got an opinion and Rangers is a wounded animal at the moment and everybody is having a kick at it, but it will come back, it will come back.

Jeff Randall - Do you really believe that because many people feel that the opposition as it is, Celtic and others, they’re dancing on the grave and that Rangers really is dead.

Sir David Murray - No it’s not dead, we’re not buried. A lot of people are posting things and information on blogs and social media they know are not true, they know are not true and they are enjoying this as the club goes through its pain, but I tell you what there is, what is important is the next person who comes in gets their hand on the tiller, shows some leadership and gets the club back on, because Rangers won’t die whatever happens because if you go through all the various scenarios, and say the worst case was to happen – and we don't – it will be reborn in some shape or form. That stadium is built for football, the training ground is there to train players. So whoever rekindles it, that’s what’s going to happen.

Jeff Randall - David, looking at possible sources of salvation, there is a group called Blue Knights, headed by Paul Murray, a former director when you were in charge. Is he a credible buyer?

Sir David Murray - I've got nothing but respect for Paul, he only has the best interests at heart for the club and if he’s able to buy it, he’s a genuine Rangers man and wants the best for the club.

Jeff Randall - How much, in your view, would he need to raise?

Sir David Murray - It’s guess work because it’s interesting, we’re meeting today, the day that bids are going in for the club but I would have thought, probably, if it’s a debt free club, probably £20-25 million to then put into CVA to have a reasonable chance of paying a reasonable payment in the pound, I would have thought.

Jeff Randall - Looking back, clearly your business model for Rangers failed. What advice would you give new owners?

Sir David Murray - I don't agree it failed because how do you judge failure in football. Is it purely balance sheet or is it winning trophies, and if you look at the last five years of the club, we actually made a profit in more years than we lost. And in theory, when I handed over the club it was meant to be debt free because Craig Whyte, if he’d honoured his commitment, and in fact straight after he’d bought the club said publicly – which now doesn’t mean a lot for some statements, I understand – the club has never been a better position. And I took no payment whatsoever to try and leave a club with as little debt as possible. And even before Craig Whyte paid or didn’t pay for the club indirectly, there was an £18 million overdraft on a £50 million turnover football club, so I don’t think it’s as bad as you make out.

Jeff Randall - Well, David, I said your business model failed, not your football model failed, and I say it failed because a few years ago you ended up putting in £50 million to wipe out the debt. Now, you're a rich man, you are able to do it but that’s not a business model.

Sir David Murray - But you cannot run a football club on a normal, typical business model because a ricochet in the last minute of a game could win a league, lose a league, a Champions League game. So how you can ever put that in any business plan I do not know.

Jeff Randall - It’s not really a business then, is it?

Sir David Murray - No, it’s a very expensive … not hobby but very expensive pastime which cost me a lot of money.

Jeff Randall - On that point, how much, over the years when you look back, net net, did you and your family and your companies put in to Rangers football club, how much did it cost you?

Sir David Murray - I can easily document it, the acquisition, payments over the years, the rights issue, I would say just short of £100 million over 22 years.

ENDS

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