ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO THE BATTLE FOR NUMBER 10, SKY NEWS & C4

KAY BURLEY: Welcome back to Cameron and Miliband Live: The Battle for Number Ten.  Tonight we’ve seen David Cameron face the questions of Jeremy Paxman and also those of our studio audience, now it’s the turn of the Labour leader, Ed Miliband.  He’s here in the studio and ready to meet our audience.  Let’s see if they are still applauding by the end of this 18 minute section.  Paul Higson first of all, Paul you are retired, what is your question?

PAUL HIGSON: Good evening, my question is this, you sound gloomy most of the time, are things really so bad?

ED MILIBAND: No, but they could be a lot better and that is the big argument of this election.  I think this is a choice between those who think this is as good as it gets for Britain and those who think we can do a lot better than this.  I don't think it’s good enough that we have got 700,000 people on zero hours contracts, I think we can do something about it.  The Prime Minister said earlier that he couldn’t live on a zero hours contract, well I couldn’t either but let’s do something about it.  Let’s turn this country into a country where if you work month after month, year after year, you don’t end up on a zero hours contract but you have a legal right to a regular contract. That is just one of the changes that I would make, we can do a lot better than this, we’re a great country.  

KB: Okay let’s whiz through these – oh the first applause.  Paula Pearson is next, what’s your question for Mr Miliband?

PAULA: I’m proud of my working class background and I am now a higher rate tax payer.  Labour’s messages often leave me feeling demonised and ashamed of earning a good salary, how can I vote for you when you make me feel like this?

ED MILIBAND: Well let me see if I can change your mind.  I think the thing that’s happening in Britain at the moment is it is the very richest in our society, and I’m talking about the top 1%, people earning over £150,000 a year who are doing okay and I think lots and lots of people, including on middle incomes, are finding life really tough.  Now the question is, how do we do something about it and I hope you get a different message tonight if that’s the message you’ve been getting from me.  Let me give you an example, tuition fees.  Some people have criticised me for wanting to lower the burden of tuition fees from £9000 to £6000 and say it will help middle class families.  Well too right I want to help middle class families because I think lots of families are saying if my son or daughter is leaving university with £44,000 of debt, that isn’t a good situation, let’s do something about it with fair changes.  Look, I want a country where you feel you’re not struggling, you can get on and that’s one of the changes we’d make.  

KB: If you are a socialist does that mean you are anti-wealth creation?

ED MILIBAND: No, it says on our party card Democratic Socialist, I think that wealth creation is an incredibly important part of building a more prosperous society and a fairer society but look, the difference with me Kay, and this is important for the audience, is I think the way we succeed is not simply those at the top doing well but all working people succeeding.  I say it’s when working people succeed that Britain succeeds. Now that might sound like a political slogan, it isn’t, it is actually a reality of the way a country gets on so if hard work is rewarded for everyone, not just the bankers with six figure bonuses, if you get a regular …

KB: Sometimes seven figure bonuses.

ED MILIBAND: Or seven figure bonuses.  If you get regular hours and you have got some security if you are going out to work and doing the right thing for the country, if you are having an NHS you can rely on, that’s better for the whole country and I think we all benefit from that.

KB: Let’s bring in Luke Tucker next, what’s your question?  You are from Tower Hamlets I believe.  

LUKE: Hi, if you were Prime Minister after May 7th, what would the budget deficit be in pounds at the end of five years and how would you achieve it?  

ED MILIBAND: So, £75 billion we are going to inherit, we want to balance the books by the end of the parliament and cut the deficit every year and we are going to do it by doing three things.  First of all we will have fair taxes, we are going to reverse the change that David Cameron made cutting taxes for those earning over £150,000 a year.  Secondly, there will have to be spending reductions in areas outside some priorities like health and education because we do need to get the deficit down and I make no bones about that, that’s going to require difficult decisions but thirdly, really important, the other we’ve got to do.  Why is it that the Conservatives promised to eliminate the deficit but haven’t done so?

KB: Let’s not talk about the Conservatives, let’s talk about what you’d do, I’m sure all our audience remember with Liam Byrne there, the note that was left behind.  

ED MILIBAND: I understand that, I understand that but I want to draw a lesson. The reason why that hasn’t happened is because living standards have fallen so tax revenues have fallen.  So the key to getting rid of the deficit is that third element, the tax changes we’ve announced, the spending reductions but that key third element of raising living standards.  If we raise living standards in this country we’ll also get the tax revenues in and the deficit down.  

KB: Let’s bring in Veronica Monty next, Veronica what’s your question?  

VERONICA: Why is Labour prepared to deny the people the freedom to choose whether they wish to see their country become a fully-fledged member of the EU?

ED MILIBAND: I want us to stay in the EU and as you say, it’s not my priority to have a referendum whether we should leave the European Union and let me explain why.  I think when I look at our country I know what my priorities will be as Prime Minister – to tackle the cost of living crisis, to rescue our NHS, to build a future for our young people.  I think leaving the EU would be a disaster for our country because I think we rely on its jobs and the trade that we get from being in the EU.   I think strategically for Britain whether you want to tackle terrorism or climate change or a whole range of issues, we have got to be an outward looking country so it’s not my priority.  Now I have said, and this is unlikely to happen but I have said that if there is a transfer of power from Britain to the EU, a further transfer of power, we’d have an in/out referendum but it’s not likely to happen.  Look, that’s what leadership is about, it’s saying what your priority is. I don’t want us to leave the EU so why would I call a referendum in 2017 and plunge the country into two years of debate about something I don’t want to see happen.  

KB: So just to clarify, if you win the election you would not call a referendum?  

ED MILIBAND: I said it is unlikely to happen.  The lock for the British people…

KB: That’s not a definite no.  

ED MILIBAND: No, it isn’t because of the criteria I’ve set but I’m making no bones about it, Kay, it’s very unlikely to happen.  As I said, if there is a transfer of power it will happen but that doesn’t seem likely at the moment.  

KB: That’s a politicians answer there isn’t it?

ED MILIBAND: I’m not sure.  

KB: Neil, what’s your question?

NEIL: Hi, do you not think that your brother would have done a better job?  He was better qualified and better positioned.  

ED MILIBAND: Okay, well it will surprise you to know that my answer is no.  Let me explain why, it was a difficult contest between me and David and it was a bruising contest.  Why did I stand?  I thought somebody was needed to lead the Labour party who could move us on from New Labour because I thought that was the time that was necessary for the country and necessary for our party. I had strong views about how we needed to change this country, I think this country is too unequal and we’ve got to change it.  I think New Labour was too relaxed about inequality.  I think we made mistakes on foreign policy like on Iraq, we made mistakes on immigration too and maybe we’ll come to that but I thought I was the best person to move the party on and I stood because that’s what I felt was the right thing for the country.  I think I am the right person for the job, I thought it then and I think it now.

KB: I wonder Mr Miliband what regrets you have about creating such division in your family?  

ED MILIBAND: It’s hard, it’s hard, I’ll make no bones about it, it’s hard.

KB: In what ways is it hard?

ED MILIBAND: Well because it was bruising, it was bruising for me, it was bruising for David, it has healed or healing I would say, to be completely frank with you about that but …

KB: So you did fall out?

ED MILIBAND: Well we had a very difficult contest so it was very difficult.  

KB: Did you not talk?

ED MILIBAND: No, it wasn’t that we didn’t talk but I would say it was strained, not surprisingly.  But look, I care deeply about this country.  I believe I’m the right person to be Prime Minister and I thought it when I stood in 2010.  I wouldn’t have gone through all of that if I didn’t have pretty strong convictions about how we need to change Britain.

KB: Your poor mum.  

ED MILIBAND: Yes, she’s a pretty hardy soul.  

KB: I’m glad to hear it.  Let’s bring in Lynne, what’s your question?   

LYNNE: Mr Miliband, do you think socialism remains an important and evident Labour party value?  If so, why and how?

ED MILIBAND: I call it Democratic Socialism, that’s what’s on our party card, Lynne.  Yes is the answer because I believe in a fairer more equal society.  Now each generation of Labour politicians puts it into practice in their own generation. Now what does it mean today?  It goes back to the question this lady asked which is what I see in Britain – and this is the thing that countries all round the world are grappling with, this is the central question we face: are we going to be countries that work for the richest and most powerful?  This is what America is facing, President Obama as well, are we going to be a country that just works for the richest and most powerful or is everyone going to get a fair shot?  Is everyone going to play by the same rules?  If you do the right thing, go out to work, are you going to be able to build a life for yourself and your family?  Lots of people are doubting that in Britain.  To the gentleman who asked me whether I was too gloomy, that’s why it sometimes might sound that way because I think people are asking, hang on a minute, this country is supposed to work for me, why doesn’t it work for me anymore?  I am doing what everyone tells me I should do.  So that’s what Democratic Socialism means to me, a fairer and more equal society, making this country work for working people again.

KB: What do you think, Lynne?

LYNNE: I think it needs to be revisited, those values in the Labour party currently.  It needs to be reaffirmed.  

KB: With your hand up there on the second row, you just wanted to ask a quick follow up question.  

ED MILIBAND: What’s your name?

HARRY: Harry.  How are you going to be different from Nick Clegg and their broken promises or David Cameron and his broken promises?  Are you just going to sit here and sugar coat things and sweeten things up so we can vote for you?    

ED MILIBAND: No.  

HARRY: Or are you actually going to give us some security and actually follow through your promises?

ED MILIBAND: I’m going to follow through on my promises.  Now all politicians say that, you’re going to have to make a judgement tonight whether I’m going to do it.  Let me give you a very specific example, it goes back to this point about tuition fees.  In 2011 I said I wanted to cut the tuition fee to £6000, right.  Then as the parliament wore on some people said, ah Miliband is going to break his promise just like Clegg did.  You know, it’s the right thing to do to cut tuition fees to £6000 and I’m going to do it and I’ve shown how I’ll pay for it.  I’m doing it because it’s the right thing to do but I am also doing it for another reason because trust in politics is so important.  It’s so important that we have trust.  I sometimes say, Harry, I want to be the first politician to under-promise and over-deliver, not over-promise and under-deliver.  Now I’ll come back in five years if I am Prime Minister and you can tell me whether I’ve achieved it or not but I have tried to set out some promises that I know I can keep.  

KB:  Interesting to know what politicians think about each other and you’ll remember perhaps that we asked Matthew Brown in the first half of our Town Hall debates so it is only fair to put the same question to you, what do you think are David Cameron’s best qualities given that you have previously called him a chicken and a bully?

ED MILIBAND: I’d say two things about what David Cameron has achieved as Prime Minister which I admire.  The first is his commitment to equal marriage, it was hard in his party, it’s the right thing to do for the country and second, and this isn’t going to be universally popular but his commitment on overseas development and 0.7% and there will be some people who don’t like me saying that but he took a risk in the Conservative party by saying this is the right thing to do and  he’s kept to that and it’s right that he did.

KB: So you think he’s a decent enough bloke then, would you have a pint with him?

ED MILIBAND: I don't know whether we’d have a pint.  Look it’s hard when we … we could share a bacon sandwich or something.  Look, it’s hard when you are in politics because you see me and him shouting at each other at Prime Minister’s Questions and it’s not very edifying, let’s be honest it’s not a great advert for politics but as he said earlier, it’s hard to avoid the back and forth.  

KB: Let’s bring in Geoffrey just here at the front.  

GEOFFREY: Ed, my question to you is this, you have made it quite difficult for your supporters and people that are undecided …

ED MILIBAND: That’s not a great start.  

GEOFFREY: The reason is you have had a few gaffes recently and you don’t really seem to be fighting for the values that your party stands for.  Places like the [Creswell Gardens] which is the Labour council in Lambeth or museum closures because of the decimation of arts budgets and austerity in general.  

ED MILIBAND: Geoffrey, first of all austerity, Tory austerity is happening and the cuts you are talking about in the councils are happening because of the Conservative government’s decisions.  Our spending plans are very different from theirs for the future, they want cuts bigger in the next three years than the last five but let me go to the other point which I think is implicit in your question about gaffes, so called.  I am not going to win a contest as to who looks best eating a bacon sandwich, I think we can all agree with that.  

KB: They are not happy with your answer there, shaking heads and all sorts of things.  

ED MILIBAND: If I can just make this point, what I stand for and what I think matters in politics is ideas to change the country, principles, sticking to your principles when you’ve got powerful opponents like the energy companies or the banks or Rupert Murdoch, and frankly decency, reaching out to people who are the most vulnerable in our society.

DEAN: Everybody in this country remembers 13 years of Labour government under Blair and Brown and you talk about austerity to us but the reason there’s austerity is that all the money was spent, everything was thrown away, nothing was planned for a rainy day and all I hear is you saying well it was the global economy, it was a global crisis.  Yes, but the liberalisation of the banks and everything came from your party.  What I want to know is if people are going to vote Labour can you promise us that you have learnt from the mistakes that led to the mess that we’re now in?  

ED MILIBAND: Let me be very specific on that, Tim.  We were wrong …

DEAN: It’s Dean.  

ED MILIBAND: Dean, sorry.  We were wrong on the regulation of the banks, we got it wrong, the banks were under-regulated, right. Other people were saying we should regulate them even less but we were wrong along with countries all around the world and regulators around the world.  I’m sorry we got it wrong and we’ve got to learn from that and I believe I have learnt from that in my five years as Leader of the Opposition.  

DEAN: But has Ed Balls?  

ED MILIBAND: He absolutely has.  He was the first person to say we have got to make sure that the banks are properly regulated in the future but let me say something else, the banks have got to work better for our businesses. That is a problem that goes back decades, these are historic problems that we have got to solve.  

KB: Let me just get our final question from Andy Palmer.  Andy is saying why is Labour only neck and neck with the Conservatives in the opinion polls after five years of opposition.  The Sky News poll of polls today, 279 seats for you, 278 for the Conservatives, you should be steaming ahead and you’re not, why?    

ED MILIBAND: I take an old fashioned view on this which is let the people decide in six weeks’ time, Kay, I’m not a commentator.  Look, we were coming out of government in 2010, it’s hard to be a one-time opposition but the thing I am interested in is this battle about the future of the country and the people are the boss.  Let’s see what they decide on May 7th.  

KB: Would you believe we’re out of time already, 18 minutes gone. Thank you very much for joining us Mr Miliband, thank you all very much indeed.

ED MILIBAND: Thank you.  

KB: Coming next, Mr Miliband head to head with Jeremy Paxman, that’s going to be worth watching, stay tuned.