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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, the Prime Minister has insisted that he will put tackling corruption at the top of the international agenda, that’s ahead of a major summit on the issue this week.  Political leaders, businesses and charities will gather in London with the goal of signing a global anti-corruption declaration.  Among them will be the new Secretary General of the Commonwealth, Baroness Patricia Scotland and she’s with me now, a very good morning to you Baroness Scotland.  Now this is very important for the Commonwealth isn’t it because there are some Commonwealth countries and territories that are accused of facilitating money laundering, offshore funds, tax evasion and things like that.  What can the Commonwealth contribute to this?

BARONESS SCOTLAND: The most important thing we should say is that corruption affects every single country in the world and the Commonwealth represents 53 countries and that’s 2.2 billion people and one third of the world’s population but it is really extraordinary how everyone now is putting this issue right at the top of their agenda, not least because the monies that would have been siphoned off could have been used to educate children, for health services and really investing properly in the country so as you may know, what we are doing is having a conference the day before the summit to talk about what civil society can do, what businesses can do, what governments can do by working together because I actually think the only way we are going to tackle this is if we make it everybody’s business.

DM: But as I say, some of the countries, and if we’re thinking about the recent furore about offshore funds, some of those are Commonwealth territories and the reason why financial services grew in those territories was because it was a good way of getting money into those economies.  If you take that away or partially take that away from them, there has to be some form of compensation to go into the schools and the hospitals.

BARONESS SCOTLAND: I think the most important thing to say is that the overseas territories are part of the British territories, the Commonwealth has a number of territories who have used financial services and have used them robustly and well.  I think one of the things that we are all knowing now is that a new template has been created, this huge global debate between avoidance and evasion.  We are concentrating in the Commonwealth on the illicit flows, the monies that are illegally, unlawfully taken, hidden away and used in a way that is pernicious, corrosive and corruptive.  So if you look at the things that happened in the Arab Spring for instance, that was all about corruption, it was about good governance, it was about the fact that the rule of law didn’t work and you couldn’t do anything when people ripped you off.  We in the Commonwealth know that we share common law, we share common language and we believe there is an opportunity for us to come together, to have a common standard using the common law and the common language we have to build new and effective tools to fight this because the illicit are binding together.  They’ve got their own conspiracy so we need a conspiracy of the just.  So what we’re doing in the Commonwealth is we are going to have a Commonwealth Office of Criminal and Civil Justice Reform so it will be wholly raised laws, making those tools, sharing them but we’ll also be trying to create a Commonwealth Standard so we can differentiate between those companies and entities who are trying as hard as they can to comply with good practice and those who aren’t.

DM: Can I ask you, Baroness Scotland, how is the issue, the possibility of the UK leaving the European Union, how is that playing with the Commonwealth?  I have been reading that some Commonwealth countries regard it, if Britain should leave the EU, as an opportunity for those Commonwealth countries to do more trade with the UK.

BARONESS SCOTLAND: I have actually been hearing the opposite. Now firstly it is a matter entirely for the British people to decide what they want to do and what they don’t want to do and it is their decision and their decision alone.  

DM: But is it causing some tensions within the Commonwealth?   

BARONESS SCOTLAND: Well it is causing worry about a number of Commonwealth countries who rely on Britain in Europe.  You have to remember there are only four common law countries in Europe at the moment, that’s Ireland, Cyprus, Malta and Britain and Britain is the biggest voice, so for the 31 small countries within the Commonwealth, they rely on Britain to speak up for them and you’ll see a number of countries saying they are really worried that they are going to lose their champion within the European …

DM: But some Commonwealth countries say because of our immigration targets and because at the moment being a member of the EU and we have to allow anyone into the country who is a member of a European Union nation, if that changed then it would be easier for Commonwealth countries, for their peoples to access the UK.

BARONESS SCOTLAND: Well I think this is really a false dichotomy because if you look at the moment from a Commonwealth point of view, this is not from a British point of view, from a Commonwealth point of view they have the best of both worlds.  They have got a foot in Europe and a foot in the Commonwealth and at the moment there is a 19% advantage with Commonwealth countries trading with each other.  So if we could increase that and enhance the things that join us, we could up that 19% advantage but part of it is great because of course we have the European market as well as the Commonwealth market. So I am afraid what I’m being told quite strongly by Commonwealth countries is that they think they have got the best of both worlds at the moment and they’d like to keep it but you know, it is a matter for the British people.

DM: Indeed.  Just very quickly on this issue of homosexuality and LGBT rights, it is a real issue for the Commonwealth isn’t it?  The estimation is that 90% of Commonwealth populations live under the rule of some countries that have some form of criminalisation of homosexuality, do you think you’ll ever sort that out?  

BARONESS SCOTLAND: Well we’ve got the Charter and this is a process.  Every single country who is a member of the Commonwealth has their own sovereignty and integrity but every single country have committed to the values contained in the Charter.  So are we going to walk with them?  Absolutely.  Is it going to be easy?  No but is it worth doing?  Absolutely and there are great things that bind us together in the Commonwealth and the most important is we are a family, we can stick together and families don’t always get on, they don’t always agree about everything but at the end of the day they’re a family.

DM: Okay, Baroness Scotland, thank you very much indeed, very good to see you.  The Secretary General there of the Commonwealth.