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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: … the civil war rages on in Syria.  So what effect is the fighting having on an already volatile region.  I'm joined now by a senior member of the Jordanian Royal family, his Royal Highness Prince Hassan.  His father was the King of Jordan, then his brother and now his nephew, King Abdullah, rules that country.  Prince Hassan joins me now and a very good morning to you, your Royal Highness, thank you very much indeed for coming along.  I mentioned … I want to talk … there is so much in the region obviously to discuss but when we are talking about Iran’s nuclear ambitions and the talks that have been taking place in Geneva.  Our Foreign Secretary saying, well okay, progress perhaps not evident at the moment but believes a deal can be done.  Is that how Jordan sees it?

PRINCE HASSAN: As you said earlier, we’re talking about Syria and Iran, so I would say that the whole problem with civil wars, which are the most fought in the world today, we’re celebrating Cenotaph Day and that’s after two major European civil wars, the First World War and the Second World War, when my family were fighting as Arabs alongside the Allies, marching to Damascus if you will.  But on Iran, I'm a member of the Nuclear Threat Initiative.  We have called for years for a weapons of mass destruction free zone, we regard this particular achievement of coming back to talk on the 20th of this month as a real serious potential breakthrough.  Of course, there are many enemies to this development, Mr Netanyahu has made his views clear, and the GCC countries of course have sincere fears for the region.  Of course, any war obliterates us because we don’t have any nuclear capability and we’re right neighbouring Israel, so one has to remember the geography.  But I think that this is a first step towards a regional architecture of a conference for security and cooperation.

DM:       And of course, it all keys into Syria as well with this pivot of Iran and talks in Geneva over nuclear weapons, nuclear ambitions, well we want to see talks in Geneva about Syria, and that question of whether Iran is invited or Iran attends or not is one of the big issues.

PH:         On the first day I met Kofi Annan, when he came up before our colleague Lakhdar Brahimi said, "are you talking to the Israelis, are you talking to the Iranians”.  This was over two years ago and I meant in the context of a regional discussion on security.  It’s been rumoured that Israelis and Iranians have met in secret talks in Switzerland.  I don’t want to comment on that and nor would they obviously, but it think the time has come to realise that if we can meet on chemical weapons, on sarin, if we can meet on nuclear issues … it’s not the loss of life that is painful to the world because the attitude is usually, let them fight it out, there is nothing that can be done, but now this nuclear and chemical issue has been raised, I think that this is the moment where the Syrian issue, even the Syrian opposition, are now backtracking and saying, maybe we will attend because supported by Saudi Arabia and others, they don’t want to be seen as leaving the opportunities behind.

DM:       But they also … I mentioned whether Iran should attend or not or whether that would be acceptable to some of the parties.  Well, the question of President Assad, the precondition for talks up to this point has been that Assad must step down, that it’s post-regime Syria that is discussed.  Well, Assad seems to be fairly well entrenched in parts of the country.  Is it possible to hold talks without him, or what is Jordan’s view, does he have to take part or members of his regime?

PH:         As he is the head of state at the present time and as we are in a moment of transition and as he himself has not precluded the possibility of stepping down, as he puts it, it’s a popular decision, I think one has to accept that this transition could lead to change.

DM:    Can you see the opposition accepting that, elements of the opposition?

PH:         Well, if they're genuinely interested in the loss of life of over 110,000 Syrians, of the displacement of millions of refugees, of 70% of desertification of that country, and as Don Freedman puts it, if they're genuinely interested in not turning Syria into a mono-culture, in fact a whole region of basically Al Qaeda thinking - Mr Hammond was talking about the fall out of Al Qaeda, we are the recipients of that fall out – if all of this is taken into consideration we have to recognise that the Levant is a poly-culture.
 
DM:       I wanted to talk about that, you brought it around there, to the effect on Jordan.  That’s one dimension of course and the dimension I suppose that the rest of the world sees writ large, huge refugee crisis, the proportion now …

PH:      One in 10, one in 10 citizens.

DM:       10% of the Jordanian population are made up of refugees.  How are you possibly coping with that?

PH:         With great difficulty, with assistance.  The British Government announced a tranche of assistance the other day.  But unless there is a regional strategy, a regional carrying capability which says, we want to discuss the impact of 20 million uprooted in our region, including Syrians and Iraqis – don’t let us forget that half a million people have died in Iraq since the American intervention of a few years ago.  I think that this idea of having mobility on Mars, mobility stakeholders, refugees and development stakeholders on Venus, has to end.  We need a regional bank for reconstruction and development, we need regional initiatives.  The returns on Hajj, for example, could put a smile on the face of every Muslim or Christian – not all Arabs and Muslim and not all Muslims are Arabs.  There are Jews and there are also Christians.  So this is the poly-culture I think that has to come through.
 
DM:       Prince Hassan, very good to see you, thank you very much indeed for coming in and telling us all about that.  Prince Hassan of Jordan, there.
 
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