ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: So the International Criminal Court has been asked to investigate allegations of abuse and torture by British soldiers in Iraq. Human rights lawyers claim to have evidence of systematic abuse that they say goes right to the top. I spoke to the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, a short time ago and I started by asking him for his reaction to those torture allegations.

WILLIAM HAGUE: Well these allegations are either under investigation already or have been dealt with already in a variety of ways through the historic abuses system that has been established, through public inquiries, through the UK courts or the European courts. There have been some cases of abuse that have been acknowledged and apologies and compensation have been paid appropriately but the government has always been clear and the armed forces have always been clear that they absolutely reject allegations of systematic abuse by the British armed forces. The British armed forces uphold high standards and they are the finest armed forces in the world and they uphold those high standards so we reject allegations of systematic abuse but where there are substantiated allegations of things going wrong, these things have been or are being investigated and that does not require references to the International Criminal Court.

DM: So you would urge the International Criminal Court when they get these representations to say we are satisfied that the UK itself is dealing with it?

WILLIAM HAGUE: Well that is what they should say, yes, and of course they will look at anything that is sent to them but this is being dealt with properly within the United Kingdom as I’ve explained, through a very detailed and exhaustive process. As I say, there have been court proceedings, public inquiries, a process that is called Iraq Historic Allegations, so these things have been looked at and where there have been cases they have been dealt with appropriately. The United Kingdom armed forces do not commit systematic abuse and they, as I say, uphold some of the highest standards in the world.

DM: Okay, on to Syria and today you are to meet with Friends of Syria to try to deal with the issue of peace talks in Montreux later in the month. Can I ask you generally, are expectations fairly low?

WILLIAM HAGUE: I think everybody knows it is a very difficult process. This conflict has been going on for nearly three years, well over 100,000 people have been killed, terrible crimes have been committed against the people of Syria. In that situation peace talks are obviously a very, very difficult process but they are a very necessary process as well. In the end there has got to be a political solution in Syria and that’s what we’ll be discussing with the Syrian opposition, the National Coalition, today. We’ll be discussing their approach to these talks as you say in Montreux that begin on 22nd January, the so-called Geneva Two process. We want to make sure that they go to those talks, that they are ready for them and to put the pressure on the Assad regime at those talks, to discuss a transitional government in Syria and peace in Syria. This is going to put the Assad regime on the spot if everybody turns up at those peace talks and so yes, we are preparing the way for peace talks, however difficult they may be, to get that process going and get talking about resolving this desperate crisis. In the meantime of course we are also doing everything we can to alleviate the terrible suffering of the Syrian people through our humanitarian assistance.

DM: But what are your hopes that you can get the Syrian National Coalition to attend those talks? Have you got any leverage over them?

WILLIAM HAGUE: Well the case for them going is very strong. This is the only way to resolve the crisis, it does put the regime on the spot so we will be meeting them today, Sheik Ahmed Al-Jarba, President of the National Coalition, will be at our meeting today. He has always said they will be going to those talks but he has to carry everybody else with him in the opposition and you can understand how some of them feel about it. Their towns, villages, homes, families, are being bombed as we speak, it’s difficult for some of them to sit down with the Assad regime and talk about things in that situation, we have to respect and understand that, but it is the right thing for them to go there and try to make peace. So we will be, and the other countries of the core group of the Friends of Syria, including the United States, including our French hosts here, many of the Arab countries and Turkey, we will be putting that to them very clearly today.

DM: But it is a matter of these expectations, as I asked in my first question about Syria, in that even if you do persuade the Syrian National Coalition to go there, that is not the full extent of the opposition to the Assad regime and of course we have the added and growing dimension it seems now of some of the extremist Islamic groups, they are never going to attend.

WILLIAM HAGUE: Well that is right and the longer this conflict goes on, the more extremism will rise in Syria and the more that will infect other countries as well in the region, as we have seen in recent events in Iraq and Lebanon, it destabilises those countries. Now that’s why we have to keep applying ourselves to a peaceful political solution in Syria and it is why we have to support as best we can the moderate opposition, those who are committed to democracy such as Mr Al-Jarba, who I have just been talking about because without them there can’t be a solution. If the Syrians are just left with Assad on the one hand and extremists on the other hand, there will never be a peaceful political solution. We need the pro-democracy moderates to have a bigger role in Syria, we need to help to keep them in business and that’s why we have given them assistance over the last couple of years. We haven’t sent them weapons but we have sent them equipment that saves lives and that tries to keep them going through this desperately difficult situation. So you are right about the rise of extremism, those extremists will not be going to a peace conference and that’s why we have to back the National Coalition, the opposition who will be here in Paris today.

DM: But on the rise of those extremists, we hear reports from Syria on an ad-hoc basis, of some groups, some of the more moderate opposition groups, on occasion participating, joining in with the Assad forces to protect some of their areas. Do you think on a broader scale you may see at some point British foreign policy, international foreign policy, evolving to say well look, things have got so bad there that in actual fact Assad is the least worst option, he’s a bulwark against extreme Islamic organisations?

WILLIAM HAGUE: No, I don’t see it evolving in that way. It is Assad and his policies and his resistance to any democratic change, his imposition of such warfare and abuses on the people of his own country, it’s him that is contributing to that rise of extremism, he’s not part of the solution to that. I think after such events and such bloodshed over the last three years, no one can realistically envision that Assad could ever unite or lead the people of Syria again. So he’s not part, he can’t be part of the future of Syria. There is a future for Syria where some people from the regime today and some people from the opposition come together in a transitional government, that would be part of a peaceful settlement in Syria so should there be ways in the future for elements of the regime, elements of the opposition to be able to come together? Well yes, absolutely, that’s what a transitional governing body would be but it has to be formed by general consent, by mutual consent, to mean the diplomatic terminology we’ve adopted and that means not Assad, that means Assad cannot be part of that and neither Assad nor the extremists should be able to play the role in the future of Syria.

DM: But how concerned are you about the growing strength of ISIL, the Islamic State of Iraq, and Syria because as you mentioned there it is a two-way flow isn’t it? It’s affecting Iraq as we see now in the battle for Fallujah?

WILLIAM HAGUE: We are very concerned about that, including the situation in Iraq. Again that’s why it’s important to pursue this process that we’re talking about. Certainly we’re concerned about that and I’ve said all along through this crisis, the longer it goes on, the bigger will be the problem from foreign fighters travelling to Syria, from extremist ideologies on the rise, that’s one of the arguments we’ve put to the Russians of course who are also concerned about the rise of extremism and terrorism. That means that the solution is that we have to bring an end to this Syrian crisis and that’s why we make every effort to work with Russia as well as other countries who are meeting here today, as well as with the Syrian opposition, to try to bring about that peaceful solution. There is no other remedy for the rise of extremism and terrorism, we have to keep trying to sort this out.

DM: Foreign Secretary, while you’re in Paris, are you on the sidelines having any discussions about the Central African Republic and all the problems there and the role that the French are playing and indeed in other African countries?

WILLIAM HAGUE: Yes, we are certainly, I’ll be discussing the Central African Republic with my French counterpart, Laurent Fabius, today. We’ve supported, as you know, with the Royal Air Force flights, we’ve supported what the French and African forces have done in moving in to the Central African Republic to stabilise the situation there, the security there, and Britain is also giving £10 million of humanitarian assistance and with the other countries at the Security Council in New York, we’re trying to make sure that free and fair elections take place there so with a combination of better security, humanitarian assistance and a constitutional process, we bring some stability to that desperately difficult situation in the Central African Republic. So we’re working closer with France on it and of course, in the situation in Mali, where we have British forces there as part of a military training mission, an EU military training mission.

DM: And in these discussions, as we range in our discussions over so many difficult parts of the globe, how much do you take on board that working from the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, that the British Foreign Office is in danger of overstretch. After all, it says, you only have half the budget of the French for instance.

WILLIAM HAGUE: That all depends on how you calculate these things but we’re busy, there’s no doubt that in the last three years in foreign affairs, the range of crises that we’ve been dealing with, the sort of things that we’ve just been discussing, across the Middle East, across Africa, has made the job of diplomacy extremely busy to try to contain and resolve these crises on top of building up Britain’s connections with the rest of the world which is what I’m doing. I’m opening new embassies and consulates in growing economies around the world. Does that mean we’re very busy in the Foreign Office? Yes, it does but we should be busy, acting in Britain’s national interests and we are able to manage what we’re doing. We have some of the best diplomats in the world, they are working very hard, all the Ministers are working very hard and that’s going to have to continue through the year 2014.

DM: Do you think Mr Fabius might have a few words with you informally and say to you what’s going on with the UK and the European Union? I’ve been reading on the front page of the Sunday Telegraph today that 95 of your MPs, Conservative MPs, want Parliament to have the power to veto every aspect of EU law.

WILLIAM HAGUE: Well certainly I discuss that with my counterparts across Europe, all these issues. They know that we feel strongly about getting a better settlement for the UK in the European Union, the Prime Minister set out his vision for that. They know that part of that is more power for national parliaments, more accountability of the EU to national parliaments, for instance I have proposed a red card system where if enough national parliaments object to an EU directive then it cannot take place. So yes, we are arguing in the direction of greater national accountability, greater parliamentary scrutiny and power over EU decisions. On the specific proposal that you mention in the newspapers today, when you think about it of course, if national parliaments all around the European Union were regularly and unilaterally able to choose which bits of EU they would apply and which bits they wouldn’t, well then the European single market wouldn’t work and indeed even a Swiss arrangement, free trade arrangement with the European Union wouldn’t work. So we have to be realistic about these things but we are working for more national accountability and we are finding common cause with other people in Europe such as in the Netherlands for instance, on some of these ideas.

DM: For that single market to work you also have to be realistic about European migration within the borders of the EU, that in effect if people are coming to the UK to seek jobs and not claim benefits, there’s not a lot we can do about it.

WILLIAM HAGUE: Well yes, people are entitled to work around the European Union and British people take advantage of that of course rightly in other countries of the EU but what we’ve been saying is that you shouldn’t be moving to take advantage of the benefits system in another country and that’s why the Prime Minister has announced the measures that we’ve taken, that’s why Iain Duncan Smith, as you know, has been working very hard on this to make sure that that system is fair to the taxpayers of our country and other countries whilst people are free to move for work. I think that point has also been well made by my colleagues in the government and again, as Iain Duncan Smith has been saying, there are people in many other countries in Europe who think that as well. So if we have the confidence to put forward these ideas, we do find more support around the rest of Europe than is sometimes imagined at home.

DM: Can I ask you about Europe, with one eye on history of course, I know you are a keen historian, and this row about World War One, the Great War? In your view was it a just war from the British position and in actual fact it was the Germans who were to blame for starting it?

WILLIAM HAGUE: It was a just and sadly necessary war and we have to find the ways of remembering that together though of course 100 years on we have to remember it together in a way that helps international relations for the future, that promotes better understanding for the future and that there’s no doubt, when you look at the history, that Britain had to act in the way that it did in order to preserve international security and peace and democracy so whilst we should be proud of that, we should conduct ourselves in these commemorations that begin this year in a way that promotes future understanding and peace between nations and I think we can strike that balance.

DM: Finally Foreign Secretary, can I ask you about the Winter Olympics, just around the corner of course, due to open in Sochi next month and I remember last year the Prime Minister raising the issue with President Putin at the G20 of the anti-gay laws that the Russians have brought in. Now the Americans seem to be sending three openly gay athletes and former athletes in their delegation, what’s the UK going to do about that?

WILLIAM HAGUE: This is a point that we have made very strongly. As you say, the Prime Minister has raised it, we have raised it at many levels, there is no doubt in Russia at all about what we think about these matters and we will be very clear about that throughout with making the decisions about our delegations to Sochi, but there is no doubt whatsoever in the minds of the Russians how strongly the United Kingdom stands up for LGBT rights and we will continue to make that very clear.

DM: Though it would be helpful, like the Americans, to send someone who is openly gay wouldn’t it?

WILLIAM HAGUE: Well, all this will become clear over the next few weeks. Watch this space.

DM: The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, talking to me earlier.