ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well, as we just heard from the Chief Secretary, Danny Alexander, before the break, the coalition will not deviate from its programme of deficit reduction and cuts. This of course is making the unions more and more frustrated, so what more are they prepared to do and do protests and strike action actually still hold any power? Well I’m joined now by the leader of the Unite union, one of the country’s biggest unions of course, Len McCluskey and a very good morning to you, Mr McCluskey. Tell me then, having heard from Danny Alexander, we heard it in that mid-term review from the coalition, they’re not going to deviate from the cuts programme, what are union bosses like you going to do in response?

LEN McCLUSKEY: Well, continue to build a coalition of resistance, Dermot. The reality is that this government’s policies are taking us on a path to poverty and we want to make certain that we give people confidence throughout our nations to be able to stand up and resist. That’s the only thing that you can do, it’s called democracy, the oldest form of democracy is protest, civil disobedience, any form of resistance that makes this government take a step back and let them know that there are millions and millions of ordinary working people in our nations who are not prepared to stand idly by and watch them destroy everything that we hold dear to us in our society.

DM: Well, Mr McCluskey, tell me more about what form that might take and also the effect because I suppose we are both very aware that it’s coming up to the tenth anniversary of that huge anti-Iraq War demonstration ten years ago. Estimates were hundreds of thousands of people, nearly a million people out on the streets, it didn’t stop us going to war though did it?

LMcC: No, but the reality is, if you look back to those fantastic demonstrations, there were actually nearly two million people on the streets, you can actually trace that back to the demise of Tony Blair, one of the most popular – according to the opinion polls – Prime Ministers we’ve ever had. The reality is that when ordinary people said ‘Not in our name’, the integrity and the credibility of the Prime Minister at that time began to wane. Now there is a view expressed, especially by our lords and masters, that we should do nothing, their definition of democracy is we put an X on a ballot paper once every five years and we do nothing else. That’s not my definition. The reality is when governments are acting in a way that is against ordinary working people, we have a right – in fact we have duty to stand up and protest. Those protests will take all kinds of different forms – marches on streets, civil disobedience, industrial action – all of those issues should be used and none of them should be ruled out.

DM: But they’ve all been used up to this point, do you think they’ve had any effect? I noticed at the last one, what was it, October, you spoke there and there were members of your union holding up placards saying ‘A general strike’, is that something that you would move towards?

LMcC: Well everything needs to be considered and the TUC, as you know, are looking at the practicalities of that. If we look through the history of our nation and indeed the history of the world, the only advances that are ever made for ordinary people are when they get out onto the streets and they protest. If we left it to the ruling elite then nothing would ever change and I’m here in my home city of Liverpool this morning, look at what happened in Hillsborough, one of the greatest conspiracies ever by the Establishment and it was only because of the bravery of ordinary people, the families of the 96 who died and their supporters who continued to fight and fight until justice prevailed and that’s precisely what our message is now. Ordinary working people who feel battered at the moment, attacked from all sides by this government, should have the bravery and the courage to stand together. This is no time for us, and certainly no time for trade union leaders, to be cowering in the corner, we’ve got to be proud of our values of equality, of decency and justice and we’ve got to say very clearly to this government that we’re going to fight you all the way to the next election. We’ve also got to make certain that our Labour leaders understand the sense of injustice that working people have at the moment and they’ve got to start listening so that they can demonstrate that they’re on the side of the 99% and not the 1% who are currently ripping us off at every particular level that they can.

DM: Of course Unite has got economic muscle in that area, haven’t you, given the millions you give to Labour. If you decide or your members decide that Labour isn’t listening to those voices, is that something that you would look at?

LMcC: Of course it is. The reality is that the Labour party was created at the beginning of the last century by the trade unions so that we could have a voice in the political arena. Now Labour, the Labour party, have got to demonstrate to us that they are listening to our voice, they are listening to the aspirations and concerns of ordinary people. That’s the reality and of course if they don’t listen, obviously all of us will have to live with the consequences of that but I believe that Ed Miliband is beginning to listen. I listened to him earlier and he is demonstrating that he wants to be on the side of ordinary people, he’s rejected the idea and the concepts of New Labour and the fact that they got it wrong, they were too close to the City and he is talking now about developing a radical programme. We want to assist in that because that’s what ordinary British people want to hear, what is the alternative to this dour, depressive, gloomy austerity programme of the government? One million of our young kids on the dole without any prospect, what kind of a 21^st century Britain is that? We’ve got to make certain that Labour understands that and puts a proper alternative.

DM: Okay, Mr McCluskey, thank you much indeed, good to talk to you. Len McCluskey there from Unite and thanks very much for braving the cold out there.