ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now the Home Office Minister and Conservative MP James Brokenshire has been sitting in the studio with me listening to Yvette Cooper and he joins me now, a very good morning to you.  First of all on Baroness Butler-Sloss, what’s the continuing view from the Home Office on her chairing this child abuse inquiry? 

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: Well we appointed Baroness Butler-Sloss because of her incredible experience of having headed up the Family Division of the courts.  Her passion for children’s issues, even to this day where she has been lobbying very hard on issues of modern slavery and that’s why we judged that she was the right person to lead this panel and I think it is important to stress that there is intended to be panel of experts that will sit alongside her, given that this is a very broad, wide ranging inquiry in regard to institutional abuse.  

DM: Well, as Yvette Cooper was saying there, can you give us any more clues about how extensive this panel will be?  Have you gone about recruiting them yet, these members?

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: We are obviously looking at the panel membership at this stage, the Home Secretary made her announcements in parliament last week on the …

DM: How many would be on it for instance?  Would they have equal powers, would there be co-chairs as I was suggesting to Yvette Cooper?

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: Well I think it’s this precise detail that we are working on at this stage because it is important that we do draw on the right experts. This is something that will be an inquiry that will go on for some time, we’ve said that it should have an initial response by the time of the next general election to inform the incoming government and to be able to update parliament and the public more generally but our expectation is that it will flow though and beyond the next general election given the very detailed and broad range of its remit. 

DM: Well isn’t the truth about it all though that you rather appointed, rather quickly?  You looked at her role in the Cleveland child abuse inquiry and though, well she knows about child abuse, she’s very, very respected, she’ll do?  And then this stuff has come out of course about her Establishment links and some kind of suggestion in a more recent inquiry that she may have wanted to cover up something about the Church? 

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: Well I think that Baroness Butler-Sloss’s integrity shines through.  She has been an incredible advocate for children’s issues over many, many years and I think she is an entirely suitable person to have been appointed to this role because of I think the credibility she is able to bring and therefore I think the Home Secretary was right when looking at establishing an inquiry, which has been called on by many, many people over many weeks and months to have someone that has that credibility to come forward …

DM: Those are some of the points Yvette Cooper was making, so lastly on that you are sticking with her because Yvette Cooper was saying, okay, I paraphrase but she was saying okay we’ll accept her at the moment but if that confidence ebbs away then we’ll have to look at this again.

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: Well the Home Secretary appointed Baroness Butler-Sloss last week, we are working through on the terms of reference and indeed the panel of experts because I think this is an important thing to stress, is that we do want experts to be within this panel so that it is able to deal with all of the issues but I think they do need to be confronted to give the public confidence that if there are institutions of whatever nature, they are being examined and that any institutional issues that may have resided there are being properly considered.  .

DM: Okay, as I did with Yvette Cooper, let me ask you about this Data Retention Bill.  Why is it being rushed through?  Why hasn’t there been a full parliamentary debate on something as important as this?

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: I think the important thing to stress in relation to the Bill that the House of Commons and the House of Lords will be considering this coming week is that it is to underpin and retain what’s already on the statute book.  There was a judgment earlier this year from the European Court that struck down some European legislation, now our own laws and regulations went much further in providing assurance, in providing that sense of oversight in relation to how our police, our security service and other agencies are able to gain access to information that’s not stored by government, it’s stored by the telephone companies and the internet companies so that we’re able to fight crime, so that we’re able to combat terrorism and to protect children from abuse.  So the steps that are being taken are simply to ring-fence and provide the secure legal backdrop where we have had this legal challenge, where the industry themselves are looking for further assurance and clarity, that is what this is about.   It is also why there is a termination clause at the end of 2016 to ensure that this is being done quickly, yes, but Parliament should return to it and why also we’ve asked David Anderson as the independent reviewer of counter-terrorism legislation, to look at the existing law, to look at the capabilities that are there and to report back to ensure that parliament and government is able to legislate effectively in the new parliament.

DM: Tell me about the reshuffle speculation within the government.  Do you accept that David Cameron is seen more widely as having a blind spot, as the Shadow Home Secretary put it, about women?

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: No, absolutely not and certainly working closely with the Home Secretary, Theresa May, who I think has been an incredible Home Secretary in the reforming approach that she has taken, I certainly don’t but what we should be looking to do is to ensure that we are getting further talent promoted.  You will know as much as I do in relation to any reshuffle that may or may not be taking place, that’s a matter for the Prime Minister …  

DM: So you are in the dark then, just like me? 

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: Well the interesting thing is that reshuffles are very much the Prime Minister’s choice and anyone on the outside of that, no, it’s all speculation and it’s absolutely a matter for the Prime Minister. 

DM: But of course we are getting – and it’s not just mood music – we are getting the background briefings as they’re called that more women will be promoted, doesn’t this have a demoralising effect on some of your male colleagues who think I’ve worked hard, I’m very intelligent, I’m fully across my brief, I’m qualified for a ministerial job but I’m never going to get one because I’m the wrong gender?

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: As a male minister in the government I look at the talented people that we have, men and women, and I think that we are a very well balanced government, that we have some fantastic talent from whatever quarters and if the Prime Minister decides that he wants to look at bringing further people through, that is absolutely the right thing for him to do at the appropriate moment so I think it is looking at the talent that we have but yes, we need to do more to ensure that as a party we reflect men, women and also all communities across the UK.  We know that we have more work to do but we have made some important steps forward and I know it is something that the Prime Minister very much has in his mind and I’m sure will be looking at carefully.

DM: And it will all be revealed in the next couple of days we suspect.  Lastly, this issue with Syria and indeed Iraq, numbers of Britons who have been fighting there and who may be coming back.  Have you got an update here, particularly on the numbers we think we’re dealing with here?

JAMES BROKENSHIRE: Well our estimates in terms of subjects of interest who have travelled out to Syria is over 400 is the number we are looking at.  It is why we are very focused on ensuring that where there is intelligence we are able to either stop people travelling or indeed there have been prosecutions that have now been brought before the courts and some that are ongoing of people that have travelled back because I think it is important to understand the continuing threat that we have from terrorism, the enduring nature of the threat and how Syria, being close on our doorsteps relatively to theatres of instability, how the threat from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, the Al-Nusra front allied to Al-Qaeda, it’s why we are vigilant and it is also why we are supporting communities in sending out a positive message to people who may want to help for very good reasons, for humanitarian reasons, do not travel.  You put yourself at risk, you put yourself at radicalisation and therefore the risk that that poses to our country, which is why are security forces and our police are so focused on it and as we as a government, with that focus on national security, it is absolutely our top priority.

DM:     Mr Brokenshire, thank you very much indeed.