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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, I suppose Will Young isn’t someone you would normally find on a political programme but this week he has entered the world of lobbying. He’s asking the Education Secretary, Michael Gove, to clamp down on homophobic language in schools and he joins me now, very good to see you Will, thank you for coming along. This is about the use of the word gay as an insult in schools, what are you going to say to the Education Secretary?

WILL YOUNG: Well I said to him at Stonewall’s education conference back in June I think it was that what I started with was statistics, so 23% of young gay people attempt suicide, 56% will self-harm and 81% who hear the word gay as a pejorative term feel distressed about it and my point was that this is a crisis, that is a crisis. I think the problem is that gay was claimed as a negative term in the 80s so I grew up with people saying, ‘Oh that’s so gay, this is so gay’ and it’s never really been addressed and language is the most important thing, it was the most important thing in the evolution of women’s rights, of racial equality, of religion and I think this has gone – I call it part of the wallpaper of the education system and society.

DM: Or the mood music, the background.

WILL YOUNG: Yes, exactly, exactly, I’ll use that! But it is so important. If you are Irish and you’re growing up as an Irishman or Irish woman and you say people saying, ‘Oh that’s so Irish, God, that’s so Irish’ and it’s always in referral to something negative, you’re going to feel more and more ashamed, you’re going to start feeling defunct about yourself, you’re going to start feeling wrong and this has been going on for thirty years now in schools and I think what’s really exciting is that there is a huge opportunity to start changing that.

DM: That’s what I wanted to ask you next, about the practicalities of it all. We know that educationalists, teachers are at the sharp end, they hear it, they see it, they confront it or they deal with it or they explain but there isn’t an overall policy about how to handle it.

WILL YOUNG: No, there isn’t in Ofsted, there isn’t a set agenda for homophobic language and within that there are a few problems because teachers, over half of secondary school teachers don’t think that a pejorative use of the word gay is homophobic. Over half will say that it happens so often, what can we do about it and then one in ten, and this is so important, only one in ten teachers are trained to deal with homophobic language and that’s where I am going to be coming in and working with Stonewall to start setting up more of a programme so teachers know how to communicate this to young children. Young children don’t wake up one day and go, I’m going to use the word gay as a negative term.

DM: That’s right and it’s a long process, is it something that … I mean we used racially pejorative language quite a lot in schools and even on television but that changed, do you think a similar evolution could take place?

WILL YOUNG: Yes, I mean already in schools, schools that really tackle this language, it has dropped by a third in terms of homophobia in the school and I think that is a really important statistic, it goes from about 71 to 45%, because it shows that things work. It shows that it’s working and I think it is a long game and again I think that it’s exciting because already over the last five years with Stonewall’s work and our work we’ve had a 10% drop in the use of homophobic language in schools.

DM: Are there indications from the Education Department that the Secretary himself is receptive to this approach.

WILL YOUNG: Yes, I think so. I said to Michael Gove that things need to be done about this and he actually described the use of the term gay in a pejorative way as medieval so …He was impressive actually and he said he would look into it more and I guess my point now is that words do need to go into actions. Schools need to be encouraged, if not pressed, to start dealing with the use of the word gay.

DM: Because I can join this up, I don't know if you’re aware about the Gay British Crime Survey which is coming out this week and it is that kind of language and there are some shocking statistics, you’ve been quoting quite a few statistics but one in six gay people feel that they have suffered from some sort of homophobic hate crime, that equates to something like 630,000 people and half who reported it said that no action was taken about it at all so a lot of people don’t bother reporting it.

WILL YOUNG: No action and I said that to Michael Gove as well. As a layman watching, I was aware of a law coming in that aided gay people to cite homophobic language and bring an action against them but I don’t know anyone that’s really done that. This is the problem, it’s too laissez faire and really the thing underlining all of this is that gay rights is still put below other areas and it needs to come up to the same level.

DM: The other shocking thing coming out of this survey was a lot of the people surveyed said they had low expectations of the police, even the Metropolitan police and I know you said they have been addressing issues like this for a long time, but low expectations of the police. Do you have low expectations?

WILL YOUNG: No, I don’t actually because I think the Metropolitan police have actually done really well in addressing homophobia and gay rights within their institution. I think the problem is it’s not being pushed from above as a priority. They have got a lot of things to deal with, this is the thing, it needs to be set on the agenda by government.

DM: You say you are getting encouraging noises from Michael Gove, what do you think when you see – we were talking mood music – things like gay marriage. Mr Cameron did push it through and it was seen as doing some political damage, well large political damage within his party but he was adamant this had to happen, this was what a normally civilised society in the 21st century should have.

WILL YOUNG: Exactly, I think normal civilised is the phrase to use. I think it’s absolutely fantastic and I think now it’s time to look, the devil’s in the detail and now it’s time to look at the detail and the use of the word gay that seeps in to the education system so children just drink it in as a bad thing, now it’s time – you should never rest on your laurels and not it’s time to go for that.

DM: A wake up call. Will Young, thank you very much indeed, really good to see you. Will Young there.