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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Let’s talk now with the former Security Minister, Baroness Neville Jones, she joins me from central London, a very good morning to you.  What in your view could and should the UK be doing in the campaign against Islamic State? 

BARONESS NEVILLE JONES: Well you are right to use the word campaign because they are conducting a campaign, a very effective propaganda campaign designed to instil fear, division and to intimidate and our response, our from Western democracy but more regionally, has to be both effective and sustainable.  I think that’s the key to how you move forward and I think that your editor – and by the way I think it is a pretty good analysis – I doubt very much that we shall see any very dramatic announcements coming from today’s meeting but I think there will be a lot of activity behind the scenes, started by Philip Hammond who has already left, a lot of diplomatic contact and the bones there have to increasing and speeding up the creation of this regional coalition and also working out a sustainable military strategy.  It will be no good to have pinprick activity, pinprick military strikes against the terrorists and these are terrorists, they are non-militants and it needs to be hard and effective when it comes, so it is worth building in a way that ensure that you can both strike effectively and then maintain the pressure.  It is quite right to say that in the absence of that kind of action, I think the threat will grow so I do agree with those who say we do have to move on but we do have to move on effectively and sustainably.  

DM: And does the fate of those hostages, and there are others being held of course and others being threatened, does their fate have to take a back seat to the overall strategy?  That has to develop before any help can be offered?  

BARONESS NEVILLE JONES:  No, I don't think it has to be … I think it is all part of the same picture and that is obviously extremely urgent.  I think what I have just said about the military strategy is probably over a matter of weeks, the situation of the hostages is obviously extremely urgent.  I am afraid I think that the various analysts that we have been hearing from are right to say that it is going to be very difficult to help and that is why what one needs to do obviously is to curb the ability of these terrorists actually to capture more people.  I remain with the government on the subject of the unwisdom of paying ransoms, I think that only feeds the pipeline of people that they will take so it is very important to make it clear that it is not a game we’re going to play.  

DM: Baroness Neville Jones, thank you very much indeed for your time, very good to talk to you.