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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: So if the polls are to be believed then the campaigns for and against independence it seems are neck and neck which means on Friday morning around half the people in Scotland will be disappointed whichever way it goes so how will Scotland deal with that?  How can it reunite and how can it harness the passion, the undoubted passion that’s been revealed on both sides of the campaign.  I’m joined now by two very passionate Scots, the actor Brian Cox who has played a huge variety of roles, way, way too many to mention, Hannibal Lector is one of my favourites and Bob Servant Independent, that was a good one too, very political that and he is Hollywood’s most vocal advocate for Scottish independence.  We have also got the entrepreneur, Michelle Mone OBE, one of Scotland’s most successful business leaders.  She founded the lingerie business, Ultimo – I know it well – and is a supporter of Better Together.

MICHELLE MONE: How do you know it well?

DM: I just threw that one in, Brian.  You and I were talking about it earlier.  You two are getting on very well but you are different sides of the campaign.  You have both seen it out on the streets and up and down the highways and byways, how does Scotland come back together again after all this, Brian?

BRIAN COX: I think that’s the thing about the Scots, they are very resilient and I think the great thing about us and the great thing about this whole thing, whoever wins, whether it’s a yes or whether it’s a no, it’s a triumph of democracy and I think Scotland should be very proud of itself.  I think on Friday, whatever happens, we can wake up rather proud because we have been an example for the rest of the world.  When you see what’s going on in the Ukraine and what’s going on elsewhere where there is blood being shed, in Scotland there will not be one drop of blood been shed.  People will stand up proud and say listen, we showed you, we told you this is what could happen.  We’ll come together, I don't think it will be difficult because we’re very sensible aren’t we?

MICHELLE MONE: I think it will take time.

DM: It is as you say, it is so eloquently in some cases, not so in others, debated and it is about the debate but it is, as in conflicts that do lead to bloodshed, it is splitting families, there is real passion here.  How do those families, how do those communities come back together again in your book?

MICHELLE MONE: Well I agree with Brian that we are passionate Scots, be it you’re a yes person or a no person and I think that we’ve just got to wake up on Friday and basically get on with it.  I think we have just got to settle down, gain stability, stabilise what’s going on and work out a way forward.  I hope it will be No because I am very, very scared at the moment.  All I can say is if you are buying a business, if I was buying a business, I would do a due diligence process and if in that due diligence process all the questions were being unanswered I wouldn’t buy the company.  If you look at it as Scotland is for sale, I think there are too many unanswered questions even after two years.  We don’t know, you are voting for the unknown and why would you do that?

DM: But if you had those questions answered, you say they haven’t been, if they had been you potentially could vote yes? 

MICHELLE MONE: I don't know, probably.  I am a very passionate Scot, I have three businesses here, I have got three homes here, I love the people of Scotland and it is a very frightening process and I just think that now we have got more powers, more powers for the Scottish parliament we have been given, and isn’t that just a move forward?

BRIAN COX: Maybe, maybe. 

DM: You’re right, maybe, there is a lot of discussion to have.

MICHELLE MONE: We will, on the ballot paper we will.

DM: But as it stands Brian it is a win-win for your side, a big win versus little win because even a no leads to a lot more power.

BRIAN COX: Absolutely.  It’s an extraordinary time, it really is, the most extraordinary time in my lifetime, I never thought I’d live to see it but I am so proud of the people in my country, yes and no.  I am so proud that they can conduct such a civilised debate as they have done and I think that in the end we will come together.  It might take a bit of time and also I think some families, fathers have gone yes, mothers have gone no, mothers have gone yes, fathers have gone no, it’s a balancing act and that’s the great thing, is this balancing act that’s gone on, that’s why it’s down to the wire. 

DM: And win or lose, how do you harness that passion, that engagement with politics?  It is said everywhere isn’t it that so many, particularly young people, are getting disengaged from the political process, well this has gone right down, right through the age groups, right down to the grassroots.  We have seen the number of people registering to go and vote, how can that harness be taken forward in an independent Scotland or a Scotland that is within the UK?

BRIAN COX: I think that the political life of this country really has to be looked at because it is very much in the doldrums and I think that’s what has been shown up, on either side that is what has been shown up.  That’s what actually has to be really looked at, we really have to rethink whatever the outcome is, we have to rethink our political life because it isn’t serving. 

DM: You can rethink the structures even within an independent Scotland.

BRIAN COX: There will be new structures in an independent Scotland anyway but certainly in terms of the United Kingdom, the whole thing has to be rethought because it hasn’t worked and it has been seen to fail to work because of what happened in the last two weeks. 

DM: Okay, it’s a no then, Michelle, how do you harness exactly that, that energy, that passion, the amount of information that people have taken on board?  Presumably they know an awful lot more about their society and their communities and their economy than they did before this debate started. 

MICHELLE MONE: Absolutely and there are things that have to change, there are things like food banks, we shouldn’t have food banks in the 21st century, so I do agree with that.  I do agree we need change, we do need change but change is not voting for the unknown and change is not voting for a very, very risky strategy where we won’t even have a currency.  How can you run a business, how can you run a country, without knowing these questions?  That is my fear and I do believe we have got the best of both worlds now.  Don’t upset it, we shouldn’t be upsetting and losing potentially massive inward investment with the amount of companies that have said they will move out of Scotland.  We don’t own the gas, we don’t own the oil, there’s too many things – where’s all the money going to come from?  If you are looking at a country and it’s PNL, there’s no money.

DM: But those big companies that have been talking about moving headquarters and loss of jobs and things like that, they are making it up are they?

BRIAN COX: But look, once there’s a new paradigm it’s an open day, they’ll go for it, wow, a new market.  Suddenly there is a whole new market, a new Scotland, a new market and they’ll go for it. 

DM: I was listening to some of the supermarkets saying it is going to cost more and thinking, you operate throughout Europe, you operate throughout the world. 

MICHELLE MONE: With the duties and everything else, everything’s going to change and I think Asda said it yesterday, they said food prices will go up.  Now if you are a family and every pound counts why would you risk that?  Why would you risk your food bill going up?  Why would you risk your jobs?  Why would you risk not knowing what currency you are going to have?  Why would you risk that?  You can still be Team Scotland and vote no.  Just because I’m no it doesn’t mean to say I am not Team Scotland, I am very much so.

DM: Brian, if you wake up on Friday morning – you’ll probably be staying up all night – and you get the right result from your point of view, those people and I bet you’ve been having some pretty good and interesting arguments, those people that you have been arguing with, are you sure they will not say I feel trapped now in a foreign country I don’t want to be part of?

BRIAN COX: I don't think so because it’s their country, it’s our country, it’s Michelle and my country, I don't think so.  I think they will make that period of adjustment and they will come to it because that’s the thing about the Scots, that’s what makes the Scots unique, we’re unique in that way.  Listen, we’ve spent 300 years, we’ve given everything, we’ve given the ideas to the American Revolution through the Scots Enlightenment, we’ve given the Labour party through James Kier Hardie, we’ve even given them the basis of the National Health Service.  We’ve given them so much and we’ve done it on their behalf, we’ve also given them our army. 

MICHELLE MONE: I’m not having a go at you, Brian, right but I pay my taxes here, do you pay your taxes here?

BRIAN COX: I pay my taxes everywhere. I pay a lot of taxes. 

MICHELLE MONE: Because you live in America a lot of the time.

BRIAN COX: But I also pay them here, I do pay taxes here.  

MICHELLE MONE: I just feel that the risk is far too much, the questions we are voting, we’ve been asked to vote if you are voting yes, for the unknown and it is just such a risky strategy.  

BRIAN COX: I just have to say something, you try telling the risks the underclass, the working class of Dundee.  This referendum is going to be won in the working class areas, it’s going to be won in Shettleston, it’s going to be won in…

MICHELLE MONE: Listen, I’m from the East End of Glasgow, I was from that area and I know exactly what it’s like and I do believe that there needs to be improvement, there needs to be change but we’ve got those powers now.  
DM: I can confidently say … sorry, we are out of time but of course there is plenty more time – well not plenty more time – to continue the debate.  I can confidently say this one is certainly going to run and run right until Thursday morning.  Thank you very much indeed, very good to see you, Michelle and Brian, always a pleasure.