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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Let’s talk now to the Shadow International Development Secretary, Ivan Lewis, good morning to you Mr Lewis. Well, what is Labour’s position? If it came to a debate in the House on arming the Syrian rebels, which way would Labour vote?

IVAN LEWIS: Well Dermot, I’m tempted to say I agree with Paddy but there are three objectives: to bring an end to the brutal Assad regime, to stem the tide of humanitarian tragedies that are taking place in Syria and thirdly, to prevent this conflict spilling out into a wider regional war. We believe that the best way to achieve those objectives is through diplomatic and political means which is why today is absolutely crucial that David Cameron uses his meeting with President Putin, that he also uses the next three days in terms of the G8 summit to support the American/Russian initiative for a conference bringing all the Syrian partners together with an attempt to form a transitional government at the end of it. It has to be through political means, that is the only way we are going to bring an end to this horrendous conflict.

DM: So even if President Obama calls up David Cameron and says we are going ahead, in a limited form but we are going to give more effective arms to the Syrian rebels, Britain should not go along with that?

IL: President Obama must make a judgement based as he sees it in American interests and broader interests too but we have to look at this, David Cameron said on your programme this morning that we should do more to support the opposition but at the same time he said we must drive out Al Qaeda extremists from Syria. Those two positions are almost contradictory. Al Qaeda elements are unfortunately a significant part of the opposition and when Ed Miliband asked him at Prime Minister’s Question Time last week, what arms is he suggesting we supply, can he guarantee where those arms are going to end up, I’m afraid that David Cameron had no answers. Basically we expect tough talk from our leaders, that’s true, but in the end the most important thing is that we get smart action from our leaders and there is a unique opportunity for David Cameron over the next three days, both in London and Northern Ireland, to help facilitate a political process. It will not be easy, there are a lot of difficulties along the way but help facilitate a political process. The other issue that we need to be focused on is the United Nations has said that we are $4 billion short of the amount of money necessary to respond to the humanitarian crisis. There are one and a half million refugees from Syria in Lebanon and in Jordan and it seems to me that at this summit they should also be looking at how do we bridge that gap and get some of these resources that are so crucial to deal with these horrendous human consequences of this conflict.

DM: But Britain goes into the G8 doesn’t it, more broadly on your brief, on international development, Britain goes into that summit with its head relatively held high in terms of our contribution, the percentage of our contribution of GDP to international aid.

IL: Oh absolutely, there’s no doubt that in the context of very tough times and austerity, the fact that the government this year will honour Labour’s commitment to deliver 0.7% of gross national income on overseas development, we support the government in that and we congratulate David Cameron on achieving that but let’s be clear, the last time Britain chaired the G8 was Gleneagles and we’ve broken an historic agreement both on aid and writing off debt for the world’s poorest countries. To do that though, it required months and months of preparatory work and one of the things that has been said about this Prime Minister, the chillaxing in pyjamas stuff, is that the work hasn’t been put in sufficiently in the weeks and months up to this summit to achieve the big changes that are necessary, not just on Syria which admittedly is incredibly complex, but also on some of the tax changes, the ending of the abuses of the tax system that we all want to see.

DM: And can I just ask you finally, Mr Lewis, there are plenty of opinions on all those issues, about the EU referendum bill, this Private Member’s Bill supported by the Prime Minister and the Conservative party, but your leader is saying that Labour is going to abstain on it. Your party must have an opinion on whether there should be a referendum or not on a renegotiation with the EU.

IL: Dermot, what we’ve said is we are in the middle of a serious financial crisis, everybody in the country realises things are difficult. We should be concentrating on getting economic growth going and jobs and prosperity, now is not the time for a distraction which by the way is not about a referendum tomorrow or next week or next year, it is apparently about a referendum in 2017 and Dermot, the irony of this is what is one of David Cameron’s biggest objectives in the next three days? It is to begin talks about a massive trade deal between the European Union and the US. If he believed that our best interests are either not to be in Europe or to be debating whether we should be in Europe for the next three years, why does he believe so central to our jobs and prosperity in the future is an EU/US trade deal? It is simply contradictory and inconsistent.

DM: Okay, Mr Lewis, thank you very much indeed for your time. Ivan Lewis there, the Shadow International Development Secretary.