ANY QUOTES MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now Ministers were warned about horsemeat back in 2011, that’s according to a former manager at the Food Standards Agency who says he alerted the government but was ignored. Well in a moment I’ll speak to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, he is of course Owen Patterson. Well let’s say a very good morning to Owen Patterson, good morning to you Mr Patterson. Well respond first of all to those allegations which appear on the front page of the Sunday Times today that John Young, a former manager with the Meat Hygiene Serve of the FSA forwarded a letter to your department, you weren’t there then of course, about the horse passport scheme, saying it was a debacle. You were warned, your department was warned a long time ago about this.

OWEN PATERSON: Good morning. Well I discussed this with the Chief Executive of the Food Standards Agency this morning and she is going to go back through the records and see exactly what was said at the time but what is completely clear right through this is it is absolutely illegal to present a horse for slaughter if it has taken drugs and the passport is not marked unfit for human consumption. So all along we’ve had a system which keeps criminals out. Now if criminals are determined to break the system then we have an issue of clear criminality which we’ll be taking up but the point being …

DM: Whereas you were warned about this, you’re taking it up now, your department could have started on it because Mr Young says he followed that up, that’s April 2011, May 2011 a letter from him to the Department saying are the lunatics in total control of the asylum? It’s pretty strong.

OP: Sure, I’ve asked the Chief Executive to look into this and I’ll be discussing it later but I’d just like stress that putting horses into the food chain with illegal drugs is a breach of the law and I think what’s very important to reassure the public because it is completely wrong that the public should buy a product marked processed beef and find it contains horse and secondly it is wrong that any illegal products should be in that meat so from last week it is absolutely impossible for any horse carcass to get into the food chain unless it has been cleared negative for …

DM: But you know what the public wants to know, the public wants to know why it seems to have been going on so long and given warnings like this, and there have been other allegations that there were earlier warnings, that you do seem to have been in your Department asleep at the wheel.

OP: I completely refute that. The first evidence we had of a problem of beef products being adulterated with horse was when the Irish agency had a DNA test which at the time was traced. When this issue took on a whole new dimension was when we found Findus products made in Luxembourg had a very high percentage. Prior to that, the FSA had already launched a whole programme of tests, I had been to Dublin, I had discussed this with the Irish Minister and last week we took this whole thing onto a completely different European level and at my instigation, I discussed this with Simon Coveney last Monday, I rang the French Minister, I rang the Romanian Minister, I rang Commissioner Borge and at extraordinarily short notice we convened a meeting in the Commission in which we agreed the five points that I would like to see. The problem is that this is a European competence and the regulation 178 2002 Food Safety Law is laid down by the Commission and too much of this system which has been laid down is based on trust on paper and there is not enough testing. So the big victory we had at our meeting on Wednesday night is that the Commission and the other countries there which have been endorsed by the Emergency Commission on Friday is that there will be testing. We have to get back more testing of product.

DM: You mentioned European, a huge dimension to it of course, I mean is that a plus or a minus? Do you feel constrained by European regulations that need to go through the various EU bodies to do things like randomly testing and of course today we are seeing the public are calling, they want to see an import ban until it’s all sorted out. You couldn’t do that under EU regulations could you?

OP: It’s not EU, this is our government, this is where this particular area of human activity is governed. This is a European competence decided at European level but what I’ve done is grab this opportunity, go to the main ministers, get them onside with our plan and we got the five points through, all of which have been approved.

DM: But the question to you is are you constrained by your … is this one of the competencies that the Prime Minister should be seeking to renegotiate in the future perhaps? Is this an area of frustration to you?

OP: I have to work within the system that I’ve inherited. I’ve inherited a position from the last government that this whole area of competence has been handed over to the European level. What I would like to stress to your viewers is how we grab the opportunity to work within it, not just getting allies on side, getting our five points through the other night which does bring back testing. The whole problem we have is that the system of [inaudible] which is laid down from above trusts the paperwork so it trust that the pallet conforms to the piece of paper. Nobody checks what’s on the pallet often enough, nobody checks what’s in production often enough, nobody checks the finished product often enough and what I’ve agreed, I’ve talked to Commissioner Borge about this, we’ve agreed that in this particular issue there will be Europe-wide testing for horse DNA, there will be Europe-wide testing for bute which is a major advance but when this is all through, I want to have a proper look at the whole system and within the constraints of European law I want to make sure we do reintroduce more targeted testing and more random testing of product.

DM: When do you think it will all be through? Do you think it ends with beef and horsemeat? There have been discussions about lamb and other meats within products, how far does the testing go, when do we get through this?

OP: Well let’s just get back to the testing which we’ve launched, this completely unprecedented programme of testing by food businesses which showed that roughly 99% of products tested – and don’t forget, these are the ones that were most likely to cause a problem, they were clear of horse DNA so I’ve got a further meeting with food businesses tomorrow because don’t forget, under European law they are the ones who are ultimately responsible for the safety and validity of their product and I will be pressing them to get these tests through by the end of next week. Now that is an extraordinary exercise and it does give evidence which I hope may be some reassurance to consumers. The consumers have been defrauded, it is completely wrong that they bought a beef product and found it’s got horse in it.

DM: So I take it from your robust defence of your Department that you’ve never considered your position during the course of this and if more is uncovered you wouldn’t do that, you wouldn’t think well the buck does stop with me, I happen to be the guy in charge of this department at the moment?

OPP: Of course not, we couldn’t be more active. The FSA launched the testing programme the day after, I went to Dublin, I was the one that rang up Simon Coveney the cultural Minister of Ireland, we agreed to get this unique meeting in the middle of the week, I was the one who went to European on the Hague the next day. The UK was the first member state to put in evidence to Europol, as a result of that, with the full backing of Stefan Le Fold who I spoke to on the Wednesday morning, we have now got Europol helping co-ordinate investigations right across Europe and if you look at the German press and you look at the French press today and the Dutch press, we are making progress. A whole lot of premises have been investigated, a large amount of evidence has been taken and as you’ve seen in this country, we have been extremely active, three premises have been investigated, two closed down and actually a number of arrests made. We are completely determined to get to the bottom of this because no matter what the price of a product, the consumer should buy what is on the label. It is a fraud on the public.

DM: Can I just lastly ask you about the issue of gay marriage, you were one of very few senior ministers to vote against it but I wonder if you agree with one of the ministers who did go with you into the opposition lobby on the issue, Mr Jones, the Welsh Minister, who said that he doesn’t believe that gay marriage is the best environment for the upbringing of children. You agreed with him in voting against gay marriage, do you agree with him with that analysis of it?

OP: Well I have been busy on other matters so I haven’t actually read his comments. I understand …

DM: Well he made them over a week ago.

OP: I understand he has clarified them. I voted against gay marriage on a free vote.

DM: I mean he says he, have you’ve got your own thoughts on this, let me read them to you if you haven’t read them already, ‘Marriage is an institution essentially for the provision of a warm and safe environment for the upbringing of children which is clearly something that same sex partners cannot do.’

OP: We want to see children bought up by families, we know that families are a good way to bring up children. Children brought up in families are something like 60% more likely to stay on at school, they’re 70% more likely not to go on drugs, it’s a huge advantage being brought up in a family environment. The family is the bedrock of our society …

DM: So you are saying same sex or not?

OP: I’m keen that children are brought up in families.

DM: Mr Paterson, thank you very much indeed.