ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now Philip Hammond has been Foreign Secretary for less than a week and he has already got two major crises on his hands.  The Malaysia Airlines disaster in Ukraine has been met with a war of words between Russia and the West and Israel has stepped up its ground offensive now against Hamas in Gaza.  Sky News has been told that at least forty people have been killed overnight in an Israeli military offensive in a residential area of Gaza.  Well the Foreign Secretary joins me now, a very good morning to you Mr Hammond.  As I say, two days in the job and then the Malaysia Airlines disaster happens, what is the Foreign Office’s assessment of how culpable Russia is in all this?  

PHILIP HAMMOND: Well we’re gathering evidence but all the evidence we have got points to the airliner having been taken down by a missile fire from separatist controlled territory in Eastern Ukraine.  We are clear that the Russians have significant influence over the separatists in Eastern Ukraine, that they have been supplying them with weapons and material and that in some cases separatists are reporting directly to handlers in Russia. 

DM: So you are working on that on the equipment, that it was Russian military equipment, is that an assessment?  There is a suggestion that it could have been acquired from Ukrainian sources. 

PHILIP HAMMOND: It is not absolutely clear but the evidence I think so far points very strongly to it being equipment that comes from Russia.

DM: So what flows from this?  First of all there is the investigation, the recovery of those bodies, some awful images being transmitted and being photographed of bodies being dragged around fields.  Just out of respect, we need to get people in there as quickly as possible do we not?

PHILIP HAMMOND: Absolutely and there is an absolute obligation on all nations, including Russia, to use whatever influence they have to ensure the securing of the evidence so that there can be a proper international investigation and access to the site, not least so that the bodies can be recovered, properly identified and treated with the dignity that they deserve and I’m afraid to say that the evidence to date is that Russia is dragging its heels on both counts. 

DM: What is the delay?  We hear about British teams finally arriving, can you give us an update on that?

PHILIP HAMMOND: We have got air accident investigators in Kiev, as have the US, the Dutch and the Malaysians, ready to go into the area as soon as it is safe and possible for them to do so.

DM: Why isn’t it safe? 

PHILIP HAMMOND: Because the area is under control of separatists and not a single group, different groups of separatists, they have allowed limited access to some OSCE monitors but they have not been able to get free access to the whole of the site and I’m afraid there is evidence that some of the material which could have forensic value is being moved or removed from the site.  This is an interference with what is potentially an important crime scene, it is not acceptable and we have to be very clear with the Russians that the entire international community is demanding that they behave in accordance with proper international …

DM: But why are we pussyfooting around here?  Why don’t we just send those people in with military protection if required, I’m sure the Ukrainian authorities would back that, and say shoot us if you dare, we are doing the right thing. 

PHILIP HAMMOND: The Ukrainian authorities do not control the site. 

DM: But it is Ukrainian sovereign territory. 

PHILIP HAMMOND: It is Ukrainian sovereign territory but there is a war going on in Eastern Ukraine, heavily armed separatists including with heavy weapons that they have received apparently from Russia. We have to secure agreement to get the crash investigators in there so that they can do their work and do it safely. 

DM: But Foreign Secretary, we have allowed them to shoot down this aircraft, we have pretty much established that.  Okay perhaps they didn’t mean to …

PHILIP HAMMOND: Well we haven’t allowed them.

DM: Well it has happened, a situation has developed and a consequence of events has happened and now we are allowing them to in effect cover it up.

PHILIP HAMMOND: No, Russia has a clear obligation to use its influence on the separatists to secure the site and to allow access for international accident investigators.  We are applying all the pressure that we can on Russia and the Russians should know that the eyes of the world are on them.  How they behave over this incident will determine how the world views Russia in the coming months and years and I think this is a decision point for Russia.  Russia likes to paint this as a dispute between it and the EU or it and the West, this is about Russia and the entire international community and Russia risks becoming a pariah state if it does not behave properly.

DM: Are you frustrated then?  The Prime Minister has been writing this morning about how we need turn to this moment of outrage into a moment of action, what action?  Are you frustrated by our European colleagues in particular, about them not instantly toughening up the sanctions regime? 

PHILIP HAMMOND: Well it is clear over the last months that there have been differences within the European Union about how far to go in applying sanctions to Russia.  Britain has been at the forefront of that argument and the Prime Minister has intervened on a number of occasions to toughen up the stance that the EU has taken but we now need to use the sense of outrage that is clear to get a further round of sanctions tightening against Russia with further steps as well if the Russians do not comply with the requirements that the whole international community now places upon them.

DM: I didn’t cover it when you mentioned there about the international community and Russia’s responsibility and we were talking about some of the ludicrous statements that are coming out of Russia about what might have happened here, that it was shot down by Ukrainians and things like that.  If Moscow has the black boxes, what should be done about that?

PHILIP HAMMOND: They must hand them over, the Russians …

DM: What will make them hand them over?

PHILIP HAMMOND: International pressure, the threat of further sanctions, the pressure that they will feel from the entire international community.  The UK and Australia are working together in New York to bring a Security Council resolution forward tomorrow, we have to keep the pressure on Russia from all angles but the Russians, because of their physical proximity to the site, will have significant information that will be relevant to the accident investigation and they have to make that information available to the international team that will carry out the investigation.

DM: Is there any Foreign Office advice now for airlines flying from British Airports about their routing not just over Ukraine but over other areas of conflict throughout the world?

PHILIP HAMMOND: It is actually the Department of Transport that will provide that advice to airlines but where there are conflict zones the advice generally is to avoid them, where there is any anticipation that …

DM: But it is up to the airlines?

PHILIP HAMMOND: They will be given clear advice. In this case over Eastern Ukraine the route has now been closed so airlines will not have the option of flying in it. 

DM: And can I just ask you about Gaza, the awful situation there?  The pictures, we are showing them this morning, of women and children suffering yet again.  The Israelis call that collateral damage which presumably to them is acceptable, is it acceptable to you?

PHILIP HAMMOND: Well it reminds us once again that the people who suffer in war are always civilians, it’s always the women, the children, the elderly who suffer the most and our hearts go out to the Palestinian people who are trapped in Gaza who are suffering appalling losses but look, the fact is that Israel has a right to protect itself against attack and Hamas has been using those areas of Gaza to launch rocket attacks systematically against Israel.  We have been calling, the entire international community has been calling for those rocket attacks to cease and they haven’t, what we now need to do is get a ceasefire in place as soon as possible to end the Israeli incursion into Gaza, end the rocket attacks on Israel, get the parties sitting down to talk about the underlying grievances that have caused the last two ceasefires in Gaza to break down so quickly.

DM: Lastly I just want to ask you about your new job, some interesting stuff as Sir Christopher Meyer was pointing out, in the Mail on Sunday today about what went on behind the scenes in Downing Street as people were installed and uninstalled in positions.  Is it true that you asked the Prime Minister, are you just keeping the seat warm as Foreign Secretary?

PHILIP HAMMOND: No, it isn’t true and since there were only three people in the room when I had my conversation with the Prime Minister and none of the three of us will have said anything to the Mail on Sunday, it’s clearly a complete fabrication, the story in the Mail on Sunday. 

DM: So would you like to hold on to the job after the next election if you win it?

PHILIP HAMMOND: Look, we work as a team and I’ve always worked very closely with the Chancellor in particular and I’ll have the chance now to work with the Prime Minister and the Chancellor over the preparations for the European renegotiations which are going to be crucially important to Britain and to Britain’s future, that’s something I will focus on over the next nine or ten months.  After the election, assuming that we win that election, we will then need to focus on the next phase, the renegotiation phase, which will be crucially important and I will be very happy to play any role that the Prime Minister asks me to play in that.

DM: Foreign Secretary, thank you very much indeed, Philip Hammond there.