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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well the UK terror threat level was raised from substantial to severe last week because of the threat from Islamic State and tomorrow the Prime Minister is going to unveil tougher anti-terror measures following a weekend of negotiations with his deputy, Nick Clegg.  So could we see the return perhaps of controversial control orders which give ministers the power to place terror suspects under virtual house arrest?  Well in a moment I’ll speak to the Labour MP Hazel Blears, she is of course a former Cabinet Minister and a member of the Intelligence and Security Committee.  As a minister she introduced both control orders and the Prevent strategy which tried to tackle radicalisation.  Let’s say a very good morning then to Hazel Blears, she joins us from Salford and first of all Ms Blears, what do you think is needed here?  Do we need a return to something like control orders, what real difference would it make from the existing regime?

HAZEL BLEARS:    Well I was very concerned when the Home Secretary took the decision to water down control orders and introduce something which she called TPIMs.  I genuinely think that was a bit of a deal with the Liberal Democrats and what it did was took away one of the really most useful powers that control orders had which was the power to relocate somebody away from where they had been organising, where they had a group, where they had contacts and many of these extremists are based in London so it was possible under control orders for example to relocate somebody to Ipswich or to Norwich and that meant both the police could keep a better eye on them but also they weren’t part of that organisation that was actually plotting against us.  I  think that was a really useful power, when the legislation went through Parliament I almost pleaded with the Home Secretary to keep that power so if the Prime Minister is going to bring that back then I think it’s a very good thing. 

DM: But you saw all the problems that happened with control orders, that litany of legal challenges and indeed the absconders, they themselves were far from perfect.

HAZEL BLEARS: I wouldn’t for a moment say that it was a magic bullet but it was part of the tools that the police and communities could have to try and isolate the extremists and make sure that they weren’t able to be in contact with each other through computers, through mobile phones, there were a whole series of measures which we could put on control orders which you can’t now put on TPIMs and I think if the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister have had second thoughts and if Nick Clegg decides to get off this kind of high horse that he’s on and do something practical to protect the British people, then this is something that I think would help.

DM: Okay, you mentioned the Lib Dems and indeed others saying that this is a threat to civil liberties, Lord Ashdown writing today saying well, this is a knee-jerk reaction, we don’t want to erode those very important civil liberties, the right to appeal in court and things like that.

HAZEL BLEARS: Well obviously civil liberties are hugely important and we don’t want to do the terrorists job for them by abandoning the rule of law and all the things that make our democracy so precious but what we do have is a small number of very dangerous people who are plotting against the people of this country, who are planning mass murder in some cases and on the Intelligence Committee I can tell you there is probably one really serious plot every year that has been thwarted by our intelligence agencies.  So if we can give them the powers that they need to tackle this threat, so much the better but that isn’t enough.  I’ve been saying to the Prime Minister now for several years that we need to do much more work in communities themselves to stop the next generation of young people falling into the hands of the extremists and becoming the people who want to go out to Syria as we’ve seen over the last few months.

DM: Okay, well the political practicalities, say the Prime Minister is listening to this and saying right, I agree with everything that Hazel Blears says, let’s bring back those control orders, would you say to him then okay then, if necessary have a rift with the Liberal Democrats, we Labour will support you all the way?

HAZEL BLEARS: I think that would be absolutely our position.  When the TPIMs legislation was going through Parliament, the Labour position was let’s make sure we have the power to relocate people away from their organising plots, let’s have the power to put conditions on – TPIMs, control orders, call them what you like –  but to put strong powers on so that we can protect the law abiding decent citizens in this country and that’s where Labour will be.

DM: What other powers – we believe we are going to hear something more and we’ve been hearing it for quite a while, it doesn’t seem to be happening, about removing passports for instance of those who have been seen to be travelling to engage in terrorism?

HAZEL BLEARS: Well I think this will be an important measure and I’m looking forward to seeing what the Prime Minister has to say tomorrow afternoon in Parliament.  One of the problems with the issues in Iraq and Syria is that very often people can go there via Turkey.  Now lots of legitimate holidaymakers will clearly be travelling to Turkey so it is quite difficult to pinpoint these people but if you’ve got them on a watch list, if you’re suspicious about them, then taking away their passport could be a very practical measure yet again to protect people in this country so I’ll wait to see the detail but certainly that is something I would be very interested in looking at and supporting.

DM: Just very briefly, Hazel Blears, I want to ask you about the scandal, the terrible affair of what’s been going on in Rotherham with child exploitation and abuse there.  I know your constituency isn’t very far away and a lot of these accusations drag back into the Labour years, do you think the Labour party has questions to answer about political correctness and why this wasn’t investigated properly?

HAZEL BLEARS: Well I don’t think this is particularly a Labour issue or a Tory issue or even, dare I say, a Lib Dem issue.  I think it is about attitudes, I think it’s about the fact that vulnerable young girls in particular were not taken seriously, we didn’t listen to the things that they were telling us as a community and as a society and I don't think the problems are limited to Rotherham, I think they are pretty widespread and now let’s make sure we get this out in the open and that in future we listen to these youngsters, we take them seriously.  Just because they come sometimes from troubled backgrounds, I think very often their evidence was dismissed and I think that is totally unacceptable whatever political party is…

DM: But it is worth knowing, isn’t it, why the warnings – and there were plenty of warnings – why they were ignored all those years ago and we’re hearing today that Keith Vaz from the Home Affairs Select Committee is going to ask of the Home Office what it knew and when.

HAZEL BLEARS: Yes and absolutely right, we need to look into this, see who knew what, who should be accountable, how we can learn the lessons, how we can make sure it doesn’t happen in the future and certainly I would welcome that kind of inquiry.

DM: Okay Ms Blears, thank you very much indeed.  Hazel Blears there, live in Salford.