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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, campaigning in the lead up to the referendum for Scottish independence was always going to be lively but now one MP says it has got out of hand.  The Labour front bencher and campaigner for the Better Together side, Jim Murphy says he has been pelted with eggs and called a traitor and other things and has called off a Scotland-wide speaking tour because of it.  He is now calling on Alex Salmond to call off the yobs and I’ll speak to both men in just a moment, Mr Murphy and Mr Salmond.  First I’m joined from Glasgow by the Labour MP and Shadow Development Secretary, Jim Murphy.   A very good morning to you Mr Murphy, well what’s been going on during your speaking tour of Scotland.

JIM MURPHY:  This is the biggest decision Scotland is ever going to take and I’ve been out and about on Irn Bru crates as my makeshift stage across Scotland, 100 towns in 100 days and for the first 70 it was passionate, arguments both ways, no voters, yes voters, undecided voters and that’s the way it should be.  I don’t mind heckles and, do you know what, I don’t even mind throwing eggs, that’s just a dry cleaning bill, that’s neither here nor there but what happened just after the first televised TV debate between Alistair Darling and Alex Salmond is that things took a sinister turn.  Instead of turning up with crowds of people on all sides, I would turn up and there was an organised mob of yes supporters, facilitated through the Yes Scotland local organisations, their websites, Facebook and other social media.  So this isn’t any kind of run of the mill opposition or heckling, it is co-ordinated, it’s sinister and there are times when there were hundreds of people involved in it and that’s not the type of politics we are meant to be having in this referendum debate.

DM: All right, you are saying it is very different, it’s organised.  Do you think it is sanctioned all the way to the top?

JIM MURPHY: I don’t know how high up in the Yes campaign it goes but I know how broad it is and in the last twelve meetings or so, most of them have been disrupted, most of them with angry mobs and there is a difference between a crowd and a mob isn’t there?  Crowds are great, I have got a thick skin and I can take as much criticism in these street debates and it is open air public meetings and in Scotland in summer that in itself is an achievement so it is great fun, it is occasional street theatre, there are always hecklers and that’s absolutely fine but what’s happened over the last fortnight or so is organised street mobbery and that’s unacceptable, it’s co-ordinated by Yes Scotland at a local level and it has to stop.  This tap was turned on a fortnight or so ago and it now has to be turned off because people like me would much rather be talking about tensions, the pound, how will they fund public service if Scotland was to vote for independence, the fact that independence is irreversible, there’s no back, once it’s done it’s done and if it doesn’t work out the way that Mr Salmond tells us it is going to work out, then what do we do then?  I’d much rather be discussing those sorts of things and please, let’s not put it down to one idiot throwing an egg, every campaign has its idiots and not every campaign can control everyone who supports them but this isn’t about an individual, this is about dozens if not hundreds of people co-ordinated by the Yes campaign, not to intimidate me because I couldn’t care less, I’m not going to be frightened, I’m not a coward, I’m not going to be silenced but these are people are intending to disrupt and silence undecided voters on street corners so they cannot have their say.

DM: People will say, as you have described there you wouldn’t have got where you are, you wouldn’t have got so senior in any form of politics if you couldn’t take a few blows, physical and verbal and whatever else but you are saying this is something different.  Isn’t that a sign of how worried you are, has the Yes Campaigned closed the gap?

JIM MURPHY: No, I think people turning up in an orchestrated way to silence the opponents at political meetings isn’t a reflection of me being desperate or anything of the sort, this is about good old fashioned democratic politics where people gather on street corners and have heated conversations and it’s been great, absolutely great and I’m happy with hecklers, actually it’s more enjoyable with hecklers, there’s a sense of passion about it all but there’s a difference between passion and aggression and there’s a difference between one or two or even a dozen people turning up to heckle and hundreds of people being organised to turn up to disrupt their opponents meetings, turning over tables, climbing onto the crates, trying to attack a photographer because they happened to be English and then saying to people like me that’s what I get, I’m a traitor, a Quisling, a terrorist and much else that I can’t say at this time of day.  So this isn’t about small individuals or the odd idiot, this is orchestrated, it’s co-ordinated and it has to stop.

DM: Alex Salmond is waiting to talk to me next and Alex Salmond says well he’s had it, you are both used to this rough and tumble as I describe it, he’s had road rage people coming up to him and saying vote no. It goes on on all sides doesn’t it?

JIM MURPHY: Of course, as I said earlier there is the odd individual on all sides, every political campaign in history has the odd idiot.  For example I was in Aberdeen the other evening, a man says look, let's you and I have a fight in the street. I was in Kilmarnock last week and two men came up to me and said let’s have a fight in the street, these are idiots but that’s different.  Those are usually cowards as well but they’re idiots.  This isn’t about individuals, this is about a co-ordinated effort to silence an opponent and that’s just not acceptable so I would ask the Yes campaign at a local level, when we start our tour again because we’ve had to suspend it and take police advice about how to start it, I would ask the Yes campaign to organise their own meetings and not come along to disrupt other people’s events because it’s not very democratic, it’s not the way that politics should take place.  We should of course be discussing things like the currency, how are we going to pay for pensions in Scotland if we are independent, talking about then enormity of the decision  and the fact that this isn’t like an election where if your side loses we can kick the government out the next time round, the fact that this is irreversible, there’s no going back and those are the sorts of conversations we should be having.  But let’s not reduce it to an egg thrower or one odd idiot, that’s not what this about, I can take that and much more besides. 

DM: Okay, we’ve got your message to the Yes campaign at a local level, what about at its most senior level.  We’ve got the First Minister waiting next, no doubt he can hear you, what is your message about this to Alex Salmond, Mr Murphy?

JIM MURPHY: Well this isn’t about an individual, it isn’t about one odd idiot and it’s not about egg throwers, it’s about having an open conversation, a proper debate and I’m not suggesting Mr Salmond has orchestrated this, of course I’m not, but Yes Scotland at local levels have made that happen and more genuinely and more importantly, my message to Mr Salmond is be straight with the Scottish public.  When we are about to take this enormous decision, it is not acceptable with just a few weeks to go for him to continue to assert, don’t worry it’s going to be all right on the night, that things like pensions, state pensions, works and private pensions, are all going to be safe, that we are guaranteed to share and keep the pound and that we can rely upon future spending and investment in public services on oil, a fluctuating commodity that is going to run out one day.  This is an enormous risk that we are being asked to take and so far Mr Salmond hasn’t provided any answers. 

DM: Okay, Mr Murphy, thank you very much indeed.