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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well now, as the American and European economies struggle to get back to solid growth, a trade agreement between the two massive trading blocs could be the key. It’s on the cards but would it actually work? Well I’m joined now by the European Commissioner for Trade and former Belgian Foreign Minister, Karel de Gruch. A very good morning to you, I want to ask you first of all Commissioner about your feelings about the current situation, political situation in the United Kingdom. As we see last week, one quarter almost of the people who voted, voted for a party that wants to leave the European Union.

KAREL DE GRUCH: Well if it were only 25% that would like to do so, it would be a brilliant result of course. It is also a mid-term election so I think we should take care. On the other hand, I don't think it is wise to call people that stand for election clowns, you know, I think you shouldn’t do that because what you are really saying is smashing in the face of the people that are going to vote for clowns and probably some people will also say, why not, you know, it’s up to us to do what we want to do. So we have to take them seriously. Of course it is a populist party but we have to take them seriously and give answers to the worries that they try to nourish within the population. I think there are answers because in the end the arguments that they are putting forward are very easy.

DM: Let me move it on to the issue you have come here to discuss and could this be one of the answers to those doubters about the European Union and the benefits of it, a deal, a trade deal such as the one you are trying to negotiate with the United States. It would be massive, it must be worth billions upon billions of pounds, of euros, if – and it’s a big if – it comes off.

KDG: Yes, but I think the answer to this will be positive. We really want to do this deal and when I say we it is not only the European Union but also the United States and I am very much pleased by the recent nomination of Mike Froman as US Trade Representative so he will be the main negotiator, I mean my counterpart, I happen to know him, we have worked on this for the last year so I am very positive for this I think for two reasons, the one you are mentioning, it will be very important for economic recovery on both sides of the Atlantic. It also has a very important geo-strategic significance and it will not be an easy deal and that is precisely why you need this political element in it because you can overcome the kind of problems you are going to face with political resolve and provided there is enough political resolve I think we will make a deal and make a good deal.

DM: But are you swimming against the tide almost of sentiment I suppose that in times of economic difficulty many countries tend to become more protectionist and want to look after their own industries and not open up the borders to those from far afield?

KDG: Yes, but you cannot say that about European and American firms when doing business with each other, there is no search of whatever kind of protectionism between the United States and ourselves, we are two economies that have broadly the same level of maturity so there is no big risk of forum spotting and all that kind of things. So we are equal partners and of those equal partners we are even the biggest one.

DM: Can I ask you about another matter concerning trade and that is the ethical element of trading, given the economic difficulties in so many countries? It seems we are after growth and cheaper exports and cheaper imports at all costs and then we see something like what happened in Dacca, in Bangladesh the other week with hundreds of people dying in an unsafe building, there have been factory fires not just in Bangladesh but in Pakistan and other places. What can you do to make sure that companies that manufacture overseas on places like that make sure that the workers are well looked after?

KDG: You know, trade is very conducive for economic growth and when you look at what we still have in economic growth it largely comes out of trade but you rightly point out or point at the ethical element in this and for me that is very important and I have made it very clear in a statement together with Kathy Ashton, the higher representative, that we are going to take action. I want to bring together the big retailers, the big clients that are buying all these cheap clothing, to agree on a compact, a code of conduct. So I think they have a responsibility in this, they have responsibility for the supply chain and …

DM: So are you saying sort it out yourselves or the EU could bring in some rules and regulations?

KDG: You do not necessarily need regulation for those companies but you need a code of conduct and we have … I mean Bangladesh is profiting from what they call everything but arms, which means they can export everything but arms of course, duty free and quota free, as much as they want, into the European market. We are going to make it very clear to the Bangladeshi government that they have to take immediate action with a precise timeline that if not we are going to launch an investigation and that investigation could very well lead to suspension of that very interesting trade scheme. Not because we want to hurt Bangladesh but because what is happening is simply not acceptable. From a humane point of view we cannot afford that and we have to do something about it. I think also the people in Europe should bear that in mind, if the result that people get better pay and can work in safer circumstances in Bangladesh is that a sweater is costing 0.2 pound more, so what?

DM: But you are saying to people in Europe who feel that their cost of living is going up all the time that you have to pay a little bit more for your clothing or something like that?

KDG: But it wouldn’t make such a dramatic difference and I think that people are ready to do so but we are the biggest trading bloc in the world by far and we have a responsibility in this. On the one hand I believe that to develop a country and a society you need trade, you cannot develop a society without trade but I think we have a responsibility to make sure that it also happens in acceptable conditions. It doesn’t mean that they should be paid as we are paid in Europe because they would never have a chance then but they need to see progress and they need to work in a place which is safe, where you are not burned or locked up, you know.

DM: Mr De Gruch, we must end it there, thank you very much indeed for your time. The European Commissioner for Trade there.