ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now to the issue of the Royal Mail. It’s been in public hands apparently since the reign of Charles I but this week Royal Mail is to be floated on the Stock Market by the government valued at between £2.5 and 3.3 billion. Some critics say it’s being sold off too cheaply, well here with his view is the Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umunna. Good morning, thank you very much for joining us. As you see, we’ve got Adam Afriyie still here, I just wanted to ask you about that issue first of all, what about an early referendum or what about any referendum being offered from the Labour party at all?

CHUKA UMUNNA: Well the problem is, if you look at what the government’s position is, what the Conservative party’s position is which is to have a renegotiation they don’t know they can have, they have no idea what the outcome would be, they have no idea how long it would take to do the renegotiation and meanwhile it creates huge uncertainty for British business and that’s really at the core of my objection.

DM: It creates uncertainty for the Conservative party though doesn’t it? Is it something that you can see you supporting Mr Afriyie in?

CHUKA UMUNNA: Hang on a minute, I’m not interested in playing politics with this particular issue …

DM: No, no.

CHUKA UMUNNA: What matters is what’s good for our economy and what’s good for our businesses and all I know is I’ve spoken to a huge number of business people who have expressed grave concern about the uncertainty that has been created by the Conservative position on Europe and actually what we should be doing is working with our European partners to ensure that there is going to be more growth …

DM: But doesn’t that push into why not have it earlier then, get it out of the way in a year’s time?

CHUKA UMUNNA: We don’t think having a referendum on the basis of a renegotiation you don’t know the outcome of is in the interest of British business. I actually think that we should be working with our European partners to ensure for example that we’ve got European regulations which take into account the burden on small businesses, so that we’ve actually got instead of having an obsession with often creating new burdensome rules are actually more growth focused commissions, so have a Growth Commissioner, get rid of the extra venue for the European Parliament, those are the types of reforms that we want to see in the European Union. The internal politics of the Tory party are an issue for the Conservative party.

DM: You agree with Adam Afriyie on that. Do you agree, we might as well get it out of the way seeing as I always seem to put it to you, the leadership issue Mr Umunna, your answer to that is presumably the same as Adam Afriyie, no interest whatsoever?

CHUKA UMUNNA: I just think this whole thing is absurd. I worked to get my leader elected as the leader of the Labour party, we are all working towards ensuring that he boots David Cameron out of Number Ten so that I have Ed, so that we have Ed Miliband as our Prime Minister and all this Westminster soap opera, I’m not terribly interested in it to be honest.

DM: Okay, well agreement there. Let’s move on to Royal Mail, you think it’s being sold off too cheap, particularly its property assets and particularly in and around Central London, it should be worth a lot more.

CHUKA UMUNNA: Well look, the extraordinary thing about this, the government is pressing ahead with this privatisation despite grave concerns from its own backbenchers, about 70% of the public are against this privatisation, the Federation of Sub-Postmasters are against it, a huge coalition of opposition to this and yet they are continuing to press on with this regardless. Now they’re pressing on with it what they need to illustrate is that they are going to get the best value for the taxpayer and increasingly what this is looking like is a massive bonanza for City speculators and a huge short-changing of the taxpayer at the same time. Panmure Gordon, a well-respected city broker, this week produced an extensive report saying that they believe that Royal Mail has been undervalued by £1 billion and in addition, if you just look at the property assets that you talked about, I was at Mount Pleasant yesterday, one of the most famous Royal Mail venues, in the prospectus for this initial public offering, the privatisation document for Royal Mail, they put the property assets, the real estate – and remember, if you think about where your delivery office is in your local community, it generally is in a prime site – and they reckon, they have priced that up as about £787 million. Now I was at Mount Pleasant yesterday as I was saying and some people think that if they sell Mount Pleasant or parts of Mount Pleasant after privatisation, that alone could bring in a billion. Nine Elms, which is another famous site along the Thames at Vauxhall, people think that could bring in half a billion. If you actually look at the property assets and then you look at the value, this does not add up and what I am saying today is it is not too late to pull the plug on this privatisation, pull the plug on it.

DM: Your position seems a little confused. Pull the plug because it’s wrong or pull the plug because you’re not getting enough money for it?

CHUKA UMUNNA: Both.

DM: You can’t have both.

CHUKA UMUNNA: Look, I’m saying to the government it is not too late to pull the plug on this privatisation.

DM: And come back and ask for a higher offer?

CHUKA UMUNNA: On Tuesday, Tuesday is the deadline by which people can submit applications to get shares, so until you’ve dished out the shares, until you’ve allocated them, it is free for the government to say actually we’ve taken a step back, we’ve priced this wrongly and we’ve decided not to go ahead with it. Now I’m saying don’t go ahead with it in principle, don’t go ahead with it in principle but at least if they are going to proceed, ensure you get good value for the tax payer. Increasingly we are seeing more and more information coming out which would suggest that the taxpayer is being short-changed because not only are they privatising this thing which will have huge consequences for consumers and businesses but they are also not getting proper value for it.

DM: So what advice would you give?

CHUKA UMUNNA: As I said Dermot, I don’t think they should be selling it at all, I don’t think they should be selling this thing at all. Let’s not forget, what they have done is, the government has taken on the pension liabilities of the business and some would say that is nationalisation …

DM: It’s not dissimilar to the Labour government’s plans is it?

CHUKA UMUNNA: The key distinction between what the Labour government was planning and what they are now doing is that we maintained a majority stake in public ownership and that is really important because for example the Royal Mail has a very important relationship with the Post Office under which the Post Office provides Royal Mail services. That is due to expire in 2022 and there is no guarantee that it would continue, that it would be continued by a privatised Royal Mail. Now if you have a public stake, a majority public stake, you’ve got some say in that and what happens in the future. With it being privatised, you don’t.

DM: Do you think the postal workers unions are right then to take industrial action about this and other issues I understand as well? Do you support them if they are saying we oppose privatisation and we’re going on strike?

CHUKA UMUNNA: Look, I’ve always said that I think that striking should be the very last resort and should be …

DM: Well it is the last resort, it’s about to sold.

CHUKA UMUNNA: Well it should be avoided at all costs and you’re not going to have me coming on your programme and supporting strike action but I’m not going to condemn our posties either. Let’s not forget, these people are absolutely fundamental to our communities. Your viewers, most people will know the name of their postie, these people are not seeking to go on strike lightly, this is not something people want to do. So I’m certainly not going to condemn them but you’re not going to get me supporting huge disruption of services which my constituents and many others around the country get.

DM: Okay, Chuka Umunna, thank you very much indeed. Very good to see you as always.