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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, the former Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has said the Egyptian Army had no choice but to oust President Morsi from power. He said our government must engage with the new regime there. Well is he right? In a moment I’ll speak to the Foreign Office Minister, Alistair Burt. So a very good morning then to Alistair Burt and first of all on that, I’m sure you read it with some interest, the thoughts of the former Prime Minister Tony Blair, saying we’ve really got no choice but to deal with what’s there, we need to engage with this military backed government in Egypt.

ALISTAIR BURT: I think Tony Blair’s comments entirely reflect what William Hague was saying this week which is, in that wonderful phrase, we are where we are. The reasons why we’ve seen the events over the past few days are complex but they are quite well known. They result from a breakdown in the political process in Egypt, a polarisation between the former government and the opposition over a lengthy period despite lots of efforts including from us, to try and bring politicians together, amidst the background of a declining economy, decisions not being taken but it has left a very polarised and very tense situation and it is essential that we move as quickly as possible to civil administration and to elections.

DM: It’s interesting, I think Tony Blair goes a bit further than what we heard from the Foreign Secretary on that with we are where we are. Mr Blair also seems to be suggesting that what happened had some form of legitimacy because of what Mr Morsi was doing and because of the number of people on the streets, that this was a different form of democracy.

AB: Well it is certainly a different form of military intervention to that conventionally expected because the relationship of the military with the politicians in Egypt is well known. They played a part in the removal of the former President, Mubarak, by not taking action against the people on the streets, there were huge numbers of people on the streets to represent those who were against the President but now of course we see those on the street in favour of the former President Morsi so it is a very difficult political process there and the military engagement in trying to, in a way, hold the ring, being worried about security and violence is very clear but what they must not do now is they must not demonstrate by their actions that they are trying to take sides in a future election, they should release those who have been arrested for political reasons if they have not been involved in inciting violence or anything like that. So if they are the guardians for the people they have now got to make sure they take the next step because it is essential that all political parties, including the Muslim Brotherhood and the FJP party, are able to take part in future elections.

DM: Well that’s the point then isn’t it? What is the position for the UK government if the Muslim Brotherhood are elected again? You have to say to the Army, do you not, whatever they do you really cannot intervene this time.

AB: Well we worked with the previous government, we entirely accepted the election of President Morsi, by all judgements it was a free and fair election, there was no come back afterwards. It was what happened after that, it was the process of polarisation by the government that at times appeared not to understand that just winning election is not enough, there has to be an inclusive process of government, by an opposition which also seemed to sometimes want to be polarised and not part of a process and all the time underlying there were serious economic issues, there were concerns about these being addressed and then the government took decisions in relation to the constitution, recent appointment of governors, particularly the one in Luxor which was very controversial and all in all the political process broke down. I think we also have to see this as part of a longer term transition. I don’t believe that the evidence in Egypt suggests that the Arab Spring is dead or anything like that, this is just another part of what is actually quite a long-running process. We don’t know where it’s going to end, it will take a long time and this is another stage in it but if we are to see any progress from what has happened, I think it’s essential now, the government thinks it’s essential now that the military moves towards that civilian administration, moves towards elections and ensures that the political process is free and does not give a sense that by locking up members of just one part of the political process they are changing sides or preventing them from being involved in the future. Then the people can make a judgement.

DM: I just want to follow that. What happens if they do keep doing that, as you say, locking up members particularly of the Muslim Brotherhood, is there a danger – because it is a febrile situation as we’ve been discussing – is there a danger then that elements of Muslim Brotherhood supporters say well look, democracy doesn’t work, let’s go another route and we know what that route could be?

AB: I think that’s a potentially very dangerous narrative. I don't think that the intervention in the past few days necessarily means that that is the only other option but certainly if it wasn’t to be clear that politicians of all particular stripes, providing they don’t espouse violence or anything like that, are able to take part then I think we will be reading some more difficult into it. It is absolutely vital that the sectarian issues that have now emerged in Egypt – and Egypt was not a particularly sectarian country – it’s vital that those sectarian issues do not become more part of the political process and lead to more risk of violence so there is an absolutely essential need for politicians on all sides, including the Muslim Brotherhood who will be very bruised by events, to take part in the political process from now on but it will require the release of those who have been arrested, who have taken no part in violence, to make sure they are part of the process, the proper engagement of opposition parties and then the military having held the ring and made sure the place was secure can then move back to a different role.

DM: Mr Burt, thank you very much indeed, Foreign Office Minister Alistair Burt there on the dangers and challenges of Egypt.