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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, the Shadow Transport Secretary, Maria Eagle, told this programme earlier that Labour has got nothing to apologise for over the claims that Unite tried to rig the election of a party candidate. A party report cleared the union of blame and its leader says it’s been vindicated and we’ll be hearing from him, Len McCluskey, but first I’m joined by the General Secretary of the Communication Workers Union, Billy Hayes. A very good morning to you Mr Hayes down there for the TUC in Bournemouth. Now you’ve got issues with the current government I know and we’ll get on to those in a moment or two but first of all, do you have any problems with what you’re hearing from Ed Miliband and the Labour leadership about the relation between Labour and the unions and changing it?

BILLY HAYES: Yes, we do actually. We have a good relationship in terms of party input, we think it is a bit of a distraction in terms of this constitutional stuff. Our people want to hear about what’s happening about the potential privatisation of Royal Mail, agency workers, getting their living standards back up. So I think this thing about the constitution is really not exciting the people that we represent.

DM: Yes but other voices in the Labour party say it is essential. I was talking to Lord Blair, a Labour supporter, the former Met Police Commissioner, saying that this is Ed Miliband’s Clause Four moment, that made Tony Blair. Do you want to see Ed Miliband become more like Tony Blair?

BH: I want to see Ed Miliband arguing against the privatisation of Royal Mail, looking at the problem of living standards, people’s living standards are back where they were in 2008. They are the kind of issues that people who pay good money to be members of our union, that’s what they want to see Ed Miliband talking about. Tony Blair is a person from the past, let’s talk about the future. DM: But of course the other thing about your members is that do they want to necessarily contribute to the Labour party? That’s the thing that Ed Miliband wants to change, they have to choose.

BH: Well our members want to see a Labour government because they know this government is privatising Royal Mail, it’s attacking workers’ rights, they want to see a government that will fight for them as hard as some of the people in this government are fighting for the people who pay money to their party. There can’t be anybody now, Dermot, who doesn’t know that some of the money we collect in the political levy goes to the Labour party so I don't think, I mean union money in the Labour party has got to be the cleanest money in politics.

DM: Now let’s talk about some of the specific concerns of your union members and of course people who rely on the postal service, you could be going on strike pretty soon, is that specifically about the proposed privatisation?

BH: What it’s about is the impact of privatisation, the impact that privatisation will have on our members’ terms and conditions and yes, we definitely will be organising strike action. We have already notified that and we will be letting Royal Mail know that we’re not going to stand by and see the conditions that our people have worked hard for to be set aside so we are going to be fighting to maintain our people’s terms and conditions. So it is about the impact of any potential privatisation, that’s what the strike will be about.

DM: So you are also concerned about pay and conditions, you got a pretty good pay offer haven’t you, 8.6% over three years. Look at other public sector workers and they are on 1%.

BH: Well like everything it’s the headline figures, when you get into the detail. We want to get an agreement, we’re not just saying we want to go on strike but what we are very clear about is we ain’t going to see an erosion our people’s terms and conditions and we may know of policies for getting, for improving the pay and conditions of our members. We are at the TUC here this week and even the government’s own figures show that if you are in a trade union, your pay is much better, something like 18% on the government’s own figures, so we make no apologies for seeking to protect and promote the interests of people who are members of the CWU and for that matter any trade union.

DM: Do you think it’s important that if it comes to strike action you have got to send a shot across the government’s bows?

BH: It will be more than a shot, it’ll be strike action to defend the great British postal service, Royal Mail, Post Office Counters. In Post Office Counters our members haven’t even been offered a pay rise and quite cynically, obviously the government’s concern is that they may be giving the green light to Royal Mail management, maybe you’ve got to do a deal with Royal Mail on their pay and conditions but our people in Post Office Counters haven’t even been offered a pay rise. People’s living standards are where they were in 2008 because of this government.

DM: So would you still be balloting if it wasn’t for privatisation because of those issues that you mentioned there?

BH: We’re balloting because of pay and conditions. We want to see an improvement in our people’s conditions, Post Office Counters, Royal Mail, we make no apologies for seeking to promote the interests of the people that we represent.

DM: Okay, Billy Hayes, thank you very much indeed for your time there. That’s Billy Hayes, at the TUC.