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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now has HS2 become a high speed headache for the government? The plans are drawing critics but the government has pledged to fight back and in a moment that will start with the Transport Secretary, Patrick McLaughlin. Let’s say a very good morning to Patrick McLaughlin, the Transport Secretary. Mr McLaughlin, is there part of you, given the growing concerns about HS2 from so many quarters, is there part of you that thinks this might never be built?

PATRICK McLAUGHLIN: No, because it is a very central project for the United Kingdom. Any big infrastructure project, if you look over the history of the railway altogether, there has been controversy when new lines have been talked about. We haven’t built a new railway line north of London for 120 years, we are desperately going to be desperately short of capacity. Capacity is the most important thing to address.

DM: Well I talked about the concerns, let’s go through some of them. They are coming we know tomorrow some critical comments from the Public Accounts Committee concerned about some of the positations that you’ve made on that, we’ve got elements of the Treasury as well who are saying well, look, we’re going to keep a close eye on the costs.

PMcL: Well I would expect the Treasury to keep a close eye on the costs. The Treasury don’t have to keep a close eye on the costs, I’m going to keep a close eye on the costs too. We set a budget, it has got a large contingency in which is absolutely essential for any big project like this but the project I’ve set – and when I gave the figures to Parliament and updated them to the 42 billion for the whole of the construction scheme – actually included a contingency of over £14 billion so of course the Treasury is going to keep a very close eye on it but I’m going to keep a very close eye on it too. You had this Friday leaders of the construction industry saying that they could built this on project and on time and within budget. You know, at the moment across London we’re building Cross Rail. Cross Rail is a huge project, it is obviously being tunnelled through London so we’re not seeing it as much as you might any other construction project but that is on budget and on target

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DM: But on those figures, I mean it depends how you count it doesn’t it? Some Treasury officials have said okay, you’ve got a way of counting it, pegging it to 2011 prices so you end up with £42.6 billion but if you add in the effects of inflation and VAT over the lifespan of 20 years, you end up with £73 billion. That’s too much isn’t it?

PMcL: Well I’ve heard all sort of figures, I’ve heard £80 billion, I’ll probably soon hear £100 billion because it’s a nice round figure. The truth is that what we’ve got to do, we are spending huge amounts of money now on our railway infrastructure throughout this country, £9 billion has been spent on upgrading the West Coast Mainline north of Rugby. It hasn’t given us a lot of extra capacity which it is essential to do. Most of our railways are over 100 years old and in some parts we are replacing some very, very old infrastructure. If we are going to compete globally, if we are going to be ahead in that global race, we need to make sure that our future has got good transport connections. I have to admit that the easiest thing for the government to do would be to close its eyes to this problem but the very fact that both the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and Deputy Prime Minister believe that this is essential for the future competitive edge of the United Kingdom because we need to attract jobs here, we need to attract businesses here and we can only do that if we have got good communications, not just in London but between our major cities, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield. They are going to benefit greatly from that and while I hear London commentators often slagging this subject off, if you go and talk to the city leaders in Birmingham, Leeds or Manchester they will all tell you how essential they believe this project is.

DM: Okay, let me ask you Transport Secretary where Alistair Darling’s from, I don't think he’s from London and he was the Chancellor who first got involved in it and he’s done a volte face, he’s said it’s not worth the money and it’ll suck things away from other projects. Do you not take that seriously?

PMcL: Well he says it will suck money away from other projects, what I can tell you is that we are actually investing in the railways over the next five years, we are going to electrify 880 miles. At the moment £900 million is being spent on Reading Station, £600 million completely increasing the capacity as far as Birmingham New Street station is concerned, so it isn’t a matter of sucking money away from other projects, it is a matter of actually getting investment in infrastructure in this country right. Actually, during the last Labour government they had a fairly poor record overall for investing in infrastructure. A report came out this week commissioned by the Labour party which says we have to identify these projects in the future. That’s what we’re doing.

DM: Well let’s just pick up on that because we had the Olympics obviously, Cross Rail started on their watch which you’re trumpeting and indeed they had the third runway at Heathrow which you lot junked.

PMcL: Well a) the third runway never started, yes the Olympics happened and that was a great British success built on time and delivered on time and below the final budget once the contingency was put in and I’m very pleased that Lord Deighton who was very much part of that is actually heading a task force to ensure we get the best out of HS2 that we possibly can. So that is, if you look at the overall figures and we could swap figures if you like, but actually infrastructure during the period of the last Labour government, we slipped down the economic league as far as the OECD report quite clearly shows. But look, I’m looking towards the future, I want to make sure that we do get infrastructure planned in our country and planned as far as the long term future of this country is concerned .

DM: But let me just return to that first question I put to you, you reminded me of it when you mentioned Labour and the third runway of course, which your incoming administration got rid of. Over a 20 year span, you can do the arithmetic, this has to go through four future governments, we don’t even know who the Prime Minister is going to be certainly in three of those governments at the very least. Grand projects like this have a history of being kicked out by new administrations, you cannot be sure this is going to happen.

PMcL: I am very positive the way the Labour party, who started this project up, who have also been in support of this project, of course they say we’ve got to keep an eye on costs, of course we’ve got to keep an eye on costs but it is absolutely essential for the long term future of the United Kingdom. When I go to talk to Labour leaders in Manchester or Leeds or Birmingham, all Labour leaders of large city councils, they all tell me that this project is absolutely essential and we have the backing from them. So yes, I think getting cross-part consensus is important and we’ve got that.

DM: Some of those leaders you talk about, I’ve talked to them as well and there are fears, the Public Accounts Committee is going to point this up as well, that you could have a situation where making it easier and faster to get to London is that more investment ends up in the south-east.

PMcL: Well look, that’s not what the leaders in Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds say, that is a … if you are arguing that we’d better not do any improvements to the present railway service to Manchester in that case. That is really an argument, looking backwards, we should never have built the railways in the first instance, if you are going to use that argument. I believe it is absolutely essential for the long term future of this country to have good connections between our cities and you have only got to look at what’s happened where other high speed rail lines have been in place, it has bought prosperity to the regions. I believe this will bring prosperity to Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Derby and Nottingham.

DM: Okay, Mr McLaughlin, thank you very much indeed. The Transport Secretary there, Patrick McLaughlin.