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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Welcome back to Burrowbridge in Somerset where the Prime Minister and, you may remember, the Head of the Environment Agency, Chris Smith, visited here on Friday and they got rather a frosty reception, accosted by locals and journalists alike. We’ve actually got the leader of UKIP here at the moment, Nigel Farage, he’s getting a better reception I would certainly say and we are going to be talking to him a little bit later on this programme at eleven o’clock. One politician who has shown little sympathy for Lord Smith – you’ll excuse me here, the rain is tipping it down at the moment – is the Secretary of State for Communities of course, Eric Pickles. Here’s what he had to say this morning, quoted about the Environment Agency, talking about the Chief there, Lord Smith, saying he should make his own decision over whether to quit and that he won’t be joining the Save Chris Smith Campaign. Well I’m glad to say Mr Pickles joins me now live and a very good morning to you from Burrowbridge, Mr Pickles. Do you think Chris Smith really should go?

ERIC PICKLES: Well that’s a matter for Lord Smith to decide. I’m not, I don’t feel I should offer him too much advice, it’s a matter for him.

DM: What do you think of his performance so far?

ERIC PICKLES: I think it has been a very unhappy time for Lord Smith and no doubt His Lordship is reflecting on the feedback that he’s got from the people of Somerset but at least the Environment Agency won’t have to organise a focus group to hear what people think.

DM: Right, of course he heard himself while he was here. What about this coming from David Jordan, another senior executive at the Environment Agency, that they’ve had rather a success story overall this winter, do you agree with that?

ERIC PICKLES: I think that’s fairly best described as a tin ear. Clearly there is no denying that in parts of the country the flood barriers and precautions have worked but if you are stuck on the Somerset Levels or you’re stuck elsewhere and your house has been flooded or it’s been repeatedly flooded, that kind of remark is going to grate and I don't think we should be talking about success, we should be talking about what we’re going to do to get people back into their homes, what we’re going to do in terms of pumping the water out, how quickly can we get back to normality, what are we going to do to ensure that transport links are pretty good? Really we can frankly do without that.

DM: Okay well update me on that. You mentioned the transport links and the fact that a large swathe of the south-west is now cut off by rain entirely. Are you keeping up to speed with how quickly that link can be fixed?

ERIC PICKLES: We’ll fix it as quickly as possible. Patrick McLaughlin, the Transport Secretary, went down to Dawlish as you’re seeing now, to look. I mean that’s a monstrous hole in Brunel’s great line and we will fix that as quick as we can but in the meantime what we are doing is getting in lots of coaches, operating so that people can get in and out of the south-west. In terms of aircraft, double the number of aircraft and we’ve also increased the size of aircraft and I’m very grateful to Gatwick for waiving their fees in the process.

DM: You are having another Cobra Emergency Committee meeting today, what’s front of the agenda?

ERIC PICKLES: Well the Prime Minister will be chairing it but obviously we’ll be looking at getting the transport into the south-west, we’ll be looking at ensuring that we’ve got good protection of strategic infrastructure, things like pumping stations, electricity generating, important transport links and also we are actively preparing for the floods that will occur in the Thames Valley from the middle of the week onwards, those water meadows at the top of the Thames are now full and there will be flooding. People are going out right now talking to householders, talking to businesses, getting ready to deal with that flooding.

DM: Can you see any further deployment of the Army?

ERIC PICKLES: Well we’ve got, the Army is ready for deployment and we have a kind of an agreed strategy of moving it out proportionately. The really important thing is to ensure that life can go on, that we can repair the damage and that we can get back to working as quickly and as expeditiously as possible.

DM: What about the causes of it all? Clearly it’s the weather, I get that, but this coming from one of the Chief Scientists with the Met Office, that almost undoubtedly climate change has had a role to play in this relentless conveyor belt of bad weather that we seem to be seeing at the moment. Do you agree with that?

ERIC PICKLES: Well it might be. To a degree I’ve listened to the experts and the best I got is it doesn’t get any higher than might be and I don’t think it really matters enormously whether it’s climate change or whether it’s just a fluctuation in the weather patterns. You still have to deal with the rain, you still have to deal with the ground water, you still have to deal with the flooding and I think what we need to ensure is that communities are protected from this and we shouldn’t have this ridiculous idea of, as some say, a choice between the town and the country – we need the country to be vibrant, we need the country there to ensure that it grows things for us.

DM: Just to be clear about that, it’s Dame Julia Slingo we’re talking about, the Chief Scientist with the Met Office, who says almost undoubtedly climate change had a role to play in this. Do you agree with that analysis?

ERIC PICKLES: Well I’m not really qualified to make a proper comment. I am somebody who believes in climate change, I believe it is something we need to come to address with. I don’t think that every fluctuation that we see in the weather relates to climate change. In fairness to her, she said it’s probable or possible but no more than that. I don't think there’s any absolute proof but the consequences, whether it’s climate change or whether it’s a fluctuation, the consequences are exactly the same.

DM: But if there is to be a change, whatever’s causing it, in weather patterns, it has huge implications doesn’t it, for budgets? What do you make – and I’m going to be talking to him a little bit later – of Nigel Farage saying, well what about some of this international aid budget, why don’t we deploy that in this country?

ERIC PICKLES: Well I think it’s an easy hit, it’s a populist hit. We’ll be able to do all this without having to touch the aid budget and if it is truly global warming and our aid is sustainable aid, then aid that we’re offering in other parts of the world could well have an effect in terms of the things that happen in this country.

DM: It’s a bit of a stretch though to say you spend money way overseas and what, that might help people here on the Somerset Levels?

ERIC PICKLES: Well Dermot, our aid if pretty much targeted to help those in the greatest need, it’s well targeted in dealing with infection and inoculation but I think it is possible to be able to offer help to people throughout the world who are the poorest without it taking away anything from the people of Somerset.

DM: But the people of Somerset are saying not enough money has been spent over the years particularly in dredging which might have prevented something like this or something on the scale of this happening. It’s about the money itself, couldn’t some of that money that is being spent overseas be spent right here?

ERIC PICKLES: Well I don't think it was a question of money on the Somerset Levels, I think it was a question of policy, the policy was not to dredge. Now the more we know about it, the more we know that was a wrong-headed decision and what we have is a set of waterways that were originally built by man and dredging was a fundamental part of doing that and I think it’s now accepted, even by the Environment Agency, that that was a mistake so I think we made a grave error.

DM: Mr Pickles, I wanted to ask you about the whole issue of Mark Harper, the resignation of the Immigration Minister. Do you think he made the right decision?

ERIC PICKLES: Of course he’s made the right decision. It’s very sad to see Mark stand down because by common consent right across the House of Commons he was an exceptionally good and well-respected Minister but if you are in charge of immigration you have a pretty high test to do. I think the things he’s done, if he’d been just an ordinary member of the public he would have done nothing wrong but a higher standard of test goes to the Immigration Minister. I don't think it will be too long before he’s back, or I hope not.

DM: It took him a while though to realise didn’t it? It took him seven years to work out that his employee didn’t in actual fact have the right to work here.

ERIC PICKLES: He did a series of checks over the years and in the most recent check I think he asked his officials just to make 100% sure everything was okay and in the previous checks it came back that it was fine, in this particular check it appeared not to be the case and he therefore, within a very few days of discovering this, acted, placed his resignation to the Prime Minister.

DM: What do you think, given the difficulties that he’s an expert in the field getting the checks right, do you think that other employers, that doctors, that nurses are going to be able to do them effectively?

ERIC PICKLES: Well we’ve got to make sure it is reasonably light touch but I think it is important to emphasise that if Mark had been a doctor or a nurse doing this check there would have been no question of him committing any kind of transgression, it’s just because he’s the Immigration Minister and therefore the standard is that much higher.

DM: Yes, but the question was what about the abilities of others to carry out those checks effectively?

ERIC PICKLES: As I said, if it had have been someone else, they wouldn’t have committed a transgression. By the nature of these things they have to be reasonably light touch but if you are the Immigration Minister then there is no margin for error at all.

DM: Back to the floods, how long are you going to be staying in control of it. There is this question about Owen Patterson and his operation, any indication when he’ll be back at the centre of it?

ERIC PICKLES: I spoke to Owen quite a bit before the operation but it is quite an unpleasant process so I haven’t bothered him since. As soon as he’s back I’ll hand over the reins. I think he was doing a terrific job before coming in and seeing all the work he’s prepared, I’m full of admiration for the work that he’s done.

DM: While you are in charge, have you any plans to come here to the Somerset Levels or other flooded areas? Perhaps you can use your Ministerial car, we hear you’ve been using that rather a lot.

ERIC PICKLES: Well I’ve actually cut the cost of the Ministerial car by half, I’ve reduced the number of cars from six to two and the Labour party were using it but if you’ve got the Ministerial car it’s got to be used sensibly. I’ve also got my Oyster Card in my pocket and I use that so I only use it on Ministerial appointments.

DM: Your Oyster Card won’t get you down here, any plans to come to the Levels?

ERIC PICKLES: Yes, I have plans to come down. I think there are other Ministers who will be visiting tomorrow and Tuesday, I’ll be out in other parts of the country tomorrow to look at other areas of flooding. Of course as we move towards the middle and the end of the week we’re likely to see flooding in the Thames Valley.

DM: Okay, Mr Pickles, thank you very much indeed for your time. Eric Pickles there, the Communities Secretary.