ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now the families of those caught up in the 1984 miner’s strike at Orgreave have demanded a full investigation into allegations of police brutality there.  The Home Office had said they would announce whether there will be an inquiry by the end of October, well here we are and there has still been no word.  Well Andy Burnham, the former Shadow Home Secretary and Manchester Mayoral hopeful, has been campaigning for such an inquiry and he joins me now from his constituency in Leigh, a very good morning to you Mr Burnham.  So not long left in October for this decision, do you think it’s not going to happen?

ANDY BURNHAM: Well I hope it is going to happen, we need a decision and we’re expecting it tomorrow and in my view the case for an inquiry is overwhelming and undeniable.  I have got nothing but praise, Dermot, for the way Theresa May handled Hillsborough but you can’t be selective about which things you look at and which things you don’t. If you look at the evidence trail from Hillsborough it leads very directly to the door of Orgreave.  This is the same police force, using the same tactics, five years earlier.  In the case of Hillsborough they sought to deflect blame off the Liverpool supporters, after Orgreave they did the same with the miners so people need the truth, it’s a reasonable request and I make this last minute appeal to the government today, please don’t let people plead for the truth, they deserve it.  Order an inquiry into Orgreave tomorrow so that we can all understand what happened, draw a line and then hopefully move forward.  

DM: And wide ranging, you mentioned the parallels with Hillsborough and I want to get on to South Yorkshire Police again in a moment or two but a similar kind, a similar configuration for the inquiry?

ANDY BURNHAM: Yes, I think so because Hillsborough in the original phase had a panel that simply disclosed the papers that were held by the state, Dermot, and provided a commentary as to how that disclosure changed things.  Now the reason I am standing before this camera today and talking to you is that I promised those Hillsborough families the whole truth and I don't think they can have the full truth until we also know what happened five years earlier in the aftermath of Orgreave.  It’s the view of the Chair of the Hillsborough Families Support Group, Margaret Aspinall, that if South Yorkshire Police had been held properly to account after Orgreave for what they did, then the cover up over Hillsborough might never have happened and that is why this issue is so important.  It is also important, to be honest though, to heal the rifts that are still there in mining communities.  One of the miners who was at Orgreave, Kevin Thorn, writes a very powerful piece in the newspapers today saying he wants his grandchildren to trust the police in the way that  he was brought up to do and if that is to happen then there does need to be this process of reconciliation.

DM: And what about South Yorkshire police, we’ve mentioned them quite a lot there and Hillsborough and previously in Orgreave, there are those now saying well South Yorkshire police, should we perhaps look at getting rid of them, amalgamating them with another force?

ANDY BURNHAM: Well I think we need to have full disclosure, don’t we Dermot, about the past and if necessary, people held to account.  I pay tribute actually to the current leadership, the Police and Crime Commissioner, for his willingness to say well we’re ready to look at Orgreave and open up over Orgreave but that needs to be done together with the government so that we get the complete picture.  It is crucially important, isn’t it, to the people of South Yorkshire, that we repair trust in their police force.  I’m not necessarily calling for it to be abandoned altogether but I do feel it is unfair to those men and women who are out there today on the streets of South Yorkshire, trying to keep people safe, to have these clouds of the past constantly hanging over them.  The only way you can get rid of those clouds is to say we’re going to have this inquiry, we’re going to give people the truth and the justice that they need and then hopefully, as a community we can move forward together.

DM: Now Mr Burnham, tell me about your ambitions to become the Mayor of, well a beefed up Manchester, part of the Northern Powerhouse, extra money, more powers. Do you feel that their current administration, those ambitions came mainly from the previous Chancellor, George Osborne, do you get a feeling that the current administration is cooling on the Northern Powerhouse?

ANDY BURNHAM: A little.  There’s a lot of talk of the Midlands Engine these days.  Now I’ve nothing against seeing the Midlands regenerate too but there were specific commitments made to the Northern Powerhouse in the Conservative manifesto, Dermot, and in my view they must be honoured.  Also this policy is the right policy.  I pay credit to George Osborne for being perhaps the first Chancellor to talk seriously about the north but the big danger for the Tory party is they have created a clever slogan here with the Northern Powerhouse but they may end up seeing nothing behind it, all spin and no substance. So yes, we need to see the government put their money where their mouth is and they need to start actually at the autumn statement.  We’ve been trapped in this long debate on Heathrow that has kept the focus on London and the south-east, people up here are saying what about us?  What about transport in the north?  They are still trundling on packed trains over the Pennines, it’s not good enough so I want to see a clear timetable in the autumn statement for what is called HS3 – east/west high quality, high speed rail. I would argue that is the single highest transport investment priority for this country, linking the great cities of the north.  I can’t see how the government can justify going ahead with Cross Rail 2 before that, it’s our turn now surely and we need to see that investment coming to the north of England.

DM: All right, but on becoming Mayor of Manchester you’d also need to see don’t you, from the government, the primary legislation, it hasn’t been passed.  I was reading an interesting piece the other day in one of the blogs – so many of them – saying why on earth would a Conservative government that seems to have, nationally seems to have Labour on the run, create these powerful mayors in northern powerhouses like Manchester, when they remember the lessons for instance of Ken Livingstone and the old GLC in the 1980s?  Margaret Thatcher got rid of it because he was a thorn in her side, why would they create new thorns?  Do you think they will actually go through with it?

ANDY BURNHAM: Well that’s an interesting question isn’t it?  But I hope they do because actually it’s the right policy, that’s why they should go through with it.  It wasn’t actually conceived Dermot as the answer to the referendum and Brexit but actually it should be embraced as such now because actually what I think the referendum brought out was a cry for change from many parts of the country that feel abandoned, that don’t feel that Westminster has worked for them.  We have had a kind of situation in national politics where the London perspective has dominated national policy so when areas like mine here wanted help with manufacturing industry, all of the national focus was on the service sector.  When we wanted help with affordable homes to rent, council housing, all of the focus then was on right to buy and owner occupation and when we needed help with skills and technical education, the national focus was on the university route.  That’s why people feel the country hasn’t been run for them and that’s why – and immigration surely was a part too but of course there’s a deeper sense of disillusionment here.  So that’s why the government shouldn’t abandon this, they should press on with it, it’s the time to deepen the commitment to devolution in England and in me they are not going to have somebody that is party political for the sake of it, picking fights.  I am doing this, I am ready to leave Westminster because I want to devote myself to improving the lives of people here, rebalancing our country from south to north.  That’s why I’m doing it, if the government will work with me then I will work with them.

DM: Well before you leave Westminster, what’s your views on the Richmond Park by-election?  You mentioned Heathrow and we all know it has sparked that by-election with Zac Goldsmith resigning there to stand again as an independent and there are those in your party, senior figures in your party suggesting that Labour shouldn’t stand a candidate because you haven’t really got much of a chance of winning it and also to bolster the chance of the Liberal Democrats to embarrass the Conservatives.

ANDY BURNHAM: My main view on it is quite an indulgent act on the part of Zac Goldsmith.  There is a pretty significant price tag that comes with a by-election and what happened, Dermot, to the old way of doing politics where everybody debated things and had their disagreements but when the party made a decision, that was the decision and people then, having had the argument, should have been there to accept it.  So I kind of find it’s a distracting and again it will keep all of the focus on Heathrow, on London, on the south east, when actually the focus should be up here looking at the unacceptable transport system that we have got.  I always personally take the view that Labour should contest by-elections, we shouldn’t give the other parties a free run for narrow tactical reasons but that’s just my view but overall I think this I a huge distraction when the country needs to be getting on with the job of making sense of what Brexit means, arguing for a balanced Brexit that protects the economy. That’s where our focus should be now, not having pointless by elections.

DM: A last question on that, Mr Burnham, flowing from the Nissan decision and guarantees or not, we don’t know for sure, given to Nissan and its investment in its Sunderland plant.  If you become Mayor of Manchester, of course many, many huge exporters in and around the region, will they be wanting, will you be fighting for similar guarantees post-Brexit that they wouldn’t suffer extra tariffs if it is a hard Brexit?

ANDY BURNHAM: Absolutely.  I mean I’m not against at all the government helping a key company in the north but they can’t just do one deal for them and leave everybody else with nothing so the same, surely, Dermot, has to apply and we need to know exactly what has been promised here because there has to be a sense of fairness doesn’t there, to all companies in all parts of the country.  That’s what I’ve been arguing actually that as well as Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland having a seat at the table at these Brexit discussions, Greater Manchester needs one too, Merseyside needs one, West and South Yorkshire.  We can’t again have a situation where the London perspective decides the terms of Brexit, we need to hear the voices from around the country so that we get a fair Brexit that works for everybody and I will be arguing very hard actually that a hard Brexit will hit the poorest parts of the country hardest of all. I challenged Theresa May in the Commons about this last Monday and I said to her, has she looked at what a hard Brexit would do to the north-west of England and I said if she hasn’t done that analysis, isn’t it very irresponsible to be burning our bridges with Europe and talking up a hard Brexit? And her reply was amazing because she said, oh I’ve never said I favour a hard Brexit.  What that tells me is she is confused actually about where she is going right now.  She has been ramping up the rhetoric and actually when she went to the European summit last week she found Britain very isolated and very at risk actually from the rest of Europe walking away from her so I think the Prime Minister has got off to a bad start about all of this and she needs to get back to talking about a balanced Brexit that yes, responds to people’s concerns on immigration but does not see our economy sold down the river.  

DM: All right and did you vote for your mate, Ed Balls, last night|?

ANDY BURNHAM: I didn’t unfortunately.  I am well impressed with his moves, they were never that good on the football field I have to say.  I played up front alongside him and he didn’t move that quickly then so I don't know what they’ve been doing with him but he looks impressive I have to say and fair play to him for doing it.  

DM: It might be you at some time, you never know. Andy Burnham, very good to talk to you.

ANDY BURNHAM: I very much doubt it!  And you Dermot.