Murnaghan Interview Douglas Carswell MP, UKIP, 7.02.16

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now there’s more confusion in the so-called Brexit camp this morning with a third group now suggesting they could apply to become the official campaign to leave the European Union.  Well despite doing well in the polls, the out campaign in the last week at least has been overshadowed by infighting and personality clashes but there are also reports this morning that a cross-party umbrella group will be created to give Eurosceptics a unified voice.  Well Douglas Carswell is one of those Eurosceptics because he is UKIP’s only MP and he’s with me now, and a very good morning to you Mr Carswell.  It’s been dubbed, it’s leading the Sunday Express today, it’s been dubbed a ‘supergroup’, unifying all the bickering parties within the leave side.  Is that something that would meet with your approval?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Well let’s wait and see.  I’ve looked at it in the papers today but ultimately the Electoral Commission is going to make a choice, there are going to be competing applications to lead the campaign and that’s natural. People genuinely believe in the need to leave the European Union, it’s an authentic popular, populist, grassroots movement and that means we shouldn’t be surprised at the idea of different voices coming forward and …

DM: But you know the way elections work, you need a clear unified message and usually an identifiable leader.  If you got you all together then would you be comfortable if it was your leader within the party, if it’s Nigel Farage?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: You also know how election campaigns work and you also know there are genuine differences of ideas and differences of strategy and that’s perfectly, perfectly reasonable but if you are asking is there going to be merger between Leave.EU and Vote Leave, no there isn’t.  We’ve discussed this at some length within Vote Leave, we want to certainly work with the others, we want to co-operate with them but when it comes to putting in an application, Vote Leave wants a very different strategic approach to this campaign and I think we’ve got to be clear about this.  This isn’t about personalities.  

DM: Really?   

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Leave.EU wants a campaign that is focused primarily on the issues of identity and on immigration, Vote Leave wants a campaign that is optimistic, upbeat, internationalist, a campaign that focuses on the economy, the fact that once we’ve left, once we’ve taken back control, we stop sending £350 million a week to Brussels.  Think of what we could do in terms of NHS hospitals, that’s 60 times more than we spend on the NHS cancer fund.  

DM: But on the campaign itself, this story seems to be well-sourced and it is talking about some kind of board bringing you all together and co-ordinating the message that’s put out.  So you could remain in your campaign, Vote Leave, Mr Farage could be in his Leave.EU but let’s say there’s a debate, you put up one person to represent the view.  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Let’s be clear, Vote Leave is going to apply for designation.  I’m convinced that Vote Leave not only will get it, I think that Vote Leave stands the best chance of convincing the 48 million voters to vote to leave. There is a difference of approach and strategy, we need to be clear about this and the fact is we want to focus on the economic arguments for coming out.  We’d be more prosperous, our children and our children’s children will be better off if we leave the EU.  It’s not just … immigration is very, very important but it’s not just about immigration.

DM: And you think Leave.EU could take that part of the message?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: It’s really important that voices that appeal to different parts of the electorate are making the case.  Nigel can reach voters that no other party figure can reach, that’s really central to the campaign but we’ve got to be clear about this, Vote Leave is contending to get designation and I am pretty clear that we will …

DM: You already said that but further muddying the waters now is this other group which has been around a while, Grassroots Out.  Mr Farage writing a letter today saying it is a genuine cross-party group that everyone could unite around, presumably you apply the same test to Grassroots Out?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Absolutely, we want to work with Grassroots Out.  I saw some former colleagues in the Conservative party out delivering leaflets, wonderful, fantastic, we all want the same thing.  Let’s work together and let’s co-operate, it’s a wonderful thing that other people are delivering to constituencies and segments of the electorate, it’s good, we need everyone on the same side but be clear about this, Vote Leave is going to apply for designation and others are going to apply too, let’s see who gets it.  

DM: There is a thought, isn’t there, is the writing on the wall for UKIP whatever the result of the referendum.  If it’s out you have more or less got what you wanted, well you did get what you wanted and if it’s in, you ain’t going to see another referendum for a very long time.  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Absolutely not.  There has been some talk about disbanding UKIP, absolutely not.  There are really important things that the establishment parties simply aren’t addressing. The Europe question is part of it but there are a whole range of areas, the racket called the Family Court System, the lack of reform in banking, a whole range of public policy areas where a genuine alternative is needed to the establishment parties in Westminster.   
DM: But if you get the out vote then you would have to become a different party, you are not just campaigning about leaving the European Union, you’ve achieved that.  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: It will be absolutely wonderful if we vote to leave.  If we vote to leave perhaps we can have some more change but there are a whole range of different areas of public policy where the established parties in Westminster collude and work together to prevent people having real change and real choice.  

DM: One of your major funders, you know him, Arron Banks, you know him well, has said it is a spent force, UKIP.  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Arron said that, those aren’t my words, you’d need to talk to him about that. I am very much 100% UKIP, I know that UKIP voters really do feel the need for an alternative party in British politics and I think if we can win this referendum and be part of a coalition that wins this referendum there is lots and lots more to do.   

DM: So you’re not packing up your tend but what happens if UKIP packs up under you, would you stand again as an independent?  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: UKIP is not packing up at all, I’m 100% UKIP.  Right now I am 100% of the UKIP parliamentary party, that’s the problem, that’s what we need to tackle.  There are all sorts of things about this country that need to change, our relationship with Europe is part of it, UKIP has plenty of other things to focus on.  

DM: Okay, thanks for coming in Mr Carswell, good to see you.  Douglas Carswell there from UKIP as you probably guessed.