ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, there are reports this morning of a growing rift within the Conservative party over Europe.  Momentum is mounting ahead of the key summit in February with calls from some for the Prime Minister to be more ambitious in his negotiations.  It’s thought a deal next month could pave the way to a referendum perhaps as early as June.  I am joined now by the German MP Steffen Kampeter, he was Deputy Finance Minister until last summer and he is the incoming head of the German Employment Agency.  A very good morning t you Mr Kampeter.  What did you think of what you just heard there, a senior government minister there saying she believes other EU members are coming round to the British government’s way of thinking about migration?  

STEFFEN KAMPETER:  Actually when the heads of state are meeting in February probably migration will be one of the top issues because we see a general movement to Europe which has nothing especially to do with Schengen, European union, European integration but is the wish of people who are hungry, who are terrified and who see Europe as a place of hope and future.  We need a new further developed answer and this will not be taken by one step but will be an ongoing development.  The only sustainable answer will probably become a European action on that issue.  

DM: But does it mean, again as the Secretary of State was suggesting there, that countries even like Germany are beginning to rethink the operation of Schengen?  

STEFFEN KAMPETER: Actually the thing is we have to keep Schengen working again.  It is a realistic description that it is not working properly yet but to re-establish national borders all over Europe would not only reflect migration but economic prosperity, free movement of labour and free movement of people in any how so therefore it is the task of the European leaders, and Angela Merkel is proposing it, that we have to re-establish effective border controls at the border of the European Union and not internal border controls.

DM: Okay, well of course UK not part of Schengen but at this point certainly still in the European Union so therefore is your view that Britain should take more strain when it comes to the migration crisis?

STEFFEN KAMPETER:  Actually I am not an advisor to the UK government but…

DM: That was just a personal view.

STEFFEN KAMPETER: I don’t go into this trap.  We have different and diverging views on the migration issue but it is my and probably my government’s assumption that there is not only just a single national answer to it, therefore we have to negotiate with people we wouldn’t like to negotiate with at the moment out of the European Union for example to reclaim peace and freedom in Syria.  We have to reorganise our processes within the European Union, within the Schengen area, this is the complicated situation but Europe gets stronger out of crises, this is one of the historical experiences.   

DM: Just give me the sense within Germany, the mood music surrounding the re-negotiations before the Brussels summit as the UK comes to the table, it wants to close a deal, is there a will there to give the UK one?

STEFFEN KAMPETER:  Well I can’t remember the British troops came after World War Two but they left as friends so it was 60 kilometres away from Hanover, let’s talk about the first four Georges, so we have not just areas but in general Germany has a very intense emotional and historical and economic ties to the United Kingdom and therefore it is a clear statement that we want to keep the United Kingdom within the European integration.  That does not mean that everybody can be agreed in the middle of February in the ongoing debate but it is quite a clear statement that on not just only for emotional but for classic and political reasons there is much common ground between the German and the UK government, for example on the issue of free trade, for the issue of less bureaucratic engagement of the European institutions so we want to have another strong voice on this issue within the European integration.

DM: Okay, but just in terms of the timetable, the thought is that the Prime Minister here wants to have a referendum perhaps in the early summer, could you see things being sorted out as quickly as that because there are a lot of other things, aren’t there, as we’ve been discussing, on the EU’s plate?

STEFFEN KAMPETER: Well actually if there is a political will to conclude the negotiation, the negotiation will lead to a proper result but it is also true that negotiations always finish when everything is negotiated so it a political victory  but there is movement on several fields, let’s say internal markets, the signals are not … are positive.  I think much more complicated is the issue of free movement of labour and social benefits where we are …

DM: Do you think that could be a sticking point?   

STEFFEN KAMPETER:  It is a sticking point yet as I don’t see an easy solution but in every European government, in every European parliament I know there is a debate on how we can solve the links between social benefits and migration so there might be room for manoeuvre but not yet.  I don’t see that we have an easy solution on the issue of how non-euro members and euro members collaborate on the economic field, there is the danger of vetoing or blocking one of each other and this is nothing which I see can be accepted on the negotiation table.  So I think there is room for manoeuvre, room for common ground but not yet anybody can call victory.

DM: Great to get your thoughts there Mr Kampeter, thank you very much indeed. Steffen Kampeter there.