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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now with the EU campaigns apparently almost neck and neck in the polls, a new Sky Data Poll has revealed that voters from black and ethnic minority backgrounds are far more likely to vote to stay in the European Union.  Some campaigners have put this down to the tone of the immigration debate which they say could alienate some voters.  In a moment I’ll be speaking to the former Chair of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, he is of course Trevor Phillips.  A very good morning to you Trevor, let’s start with those numbers there, 55 against 23 amongst BME voters for Remain, what do you put that down to?  Is a lot of it down to the leadership of the Leave campaign?  

TREVOR PHILLIPS: Morning Dermot, I don't know think so, I think there are two basic reasons why people from minority backgrounds will favour Remain. First of all intuitively they are more global in their outlook and the first thing they are going to think is we live in a rough world and actually we need to be part of a big group to be able to compete with China and America. By the way, one of the things I think is very important is that particularly in the Commonwealth governments from countries in the Caribbean, Africa, India say we need Britain in the EU because you are our gateway to this market of 500 million and I think that weighs heavily with people.  The other point I suppose I would make is if you look at who is lining up for us to leave, it is true that most of the people who are involved in that campaign, most people who supported across Europe are people who are not that keen on immigrants or on immigration I should say, and intuitively I think that most people from minorities will say well these people don’t really want us here and actually if we were to leave who are going to be the people who are most likely to be denied job opportunities in the EU without Britain – Germany, France and so on?  It’s going to be people whose ancestors weren’t born in Europe.

DM: Trevor, does that argument from some Leave campaigners not cut any ice which is saying if we were able to limit migration from within the European Union then it would be an opportunity to treat the rest of the world, in particular Commonwealth countries, more fairly when it comes to immigration?

TREVOR PHILLIPS: Well look, people are pretty smart, these people – people like my parents – travelled a long way in hard circumstances to get here to have a better life, they are not easily taken in so when somebody for example like my friend Nigel Farage says oh look, this is going to be much better for people from the Commonwealth.  The question I want to know is what do the Brexit people think it’s going to be like on the other side?  Do they really mean we are going to shut out a quarter of a million EU migrants and then instantly admit a quarter of a million people from Pakistan or Nigeria?  I really want to hear Nigel tell his supporters that that’s what he means by Brexit.  I haven’t heard it yet but you know, I’m up for it.  

DM: But it must be said, and we heard it in the report didn’t we, that like all communities in the UK there are concerns about numbers, there are concerns about pressure in particular on public services by numbers.

TREVOR PHILLIPS: Well I don't think there’s any question about that and indeed people from minorities themselves are just as tough minded on the question of immigration and immigration numbers but the question is, would Brexit help us?  No because the reason we’ve got a lot of immigrants is because we’ve got a vibrant economy that needs people to do the jobs particularly in the public service. We know actually, all the economists tell us, that in fact it’s not a drain on our economy but it does create issues to do with infrastructure – schools, railways and so on – and the way to solve that is by investment in those services and particularly by the way by putting more money into training of people who are born here because that’s a real problem, I think that’s the thing that really scratches at people whether they are white or not white, recent immigrants or not, that somehow there are clever Polish or Czechoslovakian young people coming, getting the jobs and our young people aren’t getting the opportunity. The answer to that is not Brexit, the answer to that is better training.

DM: And the broad point, whether your views are in whatever community, you can’t express them at the ballot box unless you are registered to vote, there’s a big push now to make people aware of that.  

TREVOR PHILLIPS: This is the absolutely big thing, we want to make sure that everybody, whatever their point of view, everybody gets out there and expresses their opinions and it is important for minorities to feel this isn’t somebody else’s business.  

DM: Just a quick thought on that poster, it’s a bit stereotypical isn’t it?  

TREVOR PHILLIPS: Well let me be absolutely honest, this is not the poster I would have chosen.  I think what they are trying to do is to provoke people to come out and vote – good intention, maybe not the greatest execution.

DM: All right Trevor, great to see you as ever, thank you very much indeed, Trevor Phillips there.