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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well, Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s First Minister, has demanded immediate guarantees about the residency rights of people from other EU countries currently living in Scotland.  The First Minister has written to David Cameron, the Prime Minister, and the five Conservative leadership candidates ahead of a summit with European diplomats in Edinburgh on Tuesday.  Well I’m joined now by her predecessor, Alex Salmond, who is now of course the SNP’s Foreign Affairs spokesman, he’s in Aberdeenshire and a very good morning to you Mr Salmond.  Now this demand for guarantees for EU nationals residing in Scotland, even if those guarantees were given by the Prime Minister and indeed all the five leadership hopefuls, presumably they’re not worth much because negotiations need to take place with the European Union about all those kind of things in the exit procedure.

ALEX SALMOND: No, they would be worth something, of course they would, Dermot, because whether your rights of residency are guaranteed under European law or under a decision of the UK government, they would still be guaranteed and therefore Nicola Sturgeon, who incidentally has been playing an absolute blinder throughout this process, probably the only political leader of which that could be said, is absolutely right to demand that guarantee now instead of people facing the uncertainty.  And also just, I know people both in Scotland and in England, the feeling of lack of welcome and therefore to have a political leader like Nicola Sturgeon to lay it on the line and say these people should be guaranteed, they are hard-working people contributing massively to this country, their rights should be guaranteed now, is exactly the right move to make.  

DM: But there are those saying aha, this is a clever ploy and the guarantees might not be coming from Westminster and the best ways of making sure the guarantees are copper bottomed is Ms Sturgeon could answer her own question, as leader of an independent Scotland she could unequivocally say that to EU nationals.

ALEX SALMOND: Can I tell you something, Dermot?  This whole crisis about the UK’s relationship with the European Union, Scotland’s relationship with Europe, this has gone way, way beyond clever ploys.  There has been a seismic movement of opinion in Scotland which says one way or another, Scotland’s position in Europe must be consolidated and guaranteed and Nicola Sturgeon is carrying not just the SNP opinion behind her but a broad spread of political opinion in Scotland.  This is way, way beyond political ploys, this is about national leadership which Nicola Sturgeon is providing.  

DM: Indeed but tell me in your gut, Mr Salmond, do you feel another independence referendum coming given the mess there seems to be in Westminster at the moment, the leadership vacuum?  

ALEX SALMOND: Yes, in my guts I do but Nicola Sturgeon is perfectly right to make her negotiating priority to examine every possible way to consolidate Scotland’s position as a European nation and then as that unfolds, then decisions will have to be made but she is doing exactly the right thing and I give her my unconditional support on that.  

DM: How much detail have you examined as Foreign Affairs spokesman of course, some kind of deal while all the negotiations are going on, while the Brexit process is taking place, that Scotland even if it  has not left the United Kingdom, remains within the European Union?  People are talking about some kind of parallels with Denmark and its membership for instance.

ALEX SALMOND: Yes, the reverse Greenland, let’s call it that Dermot.  It’s under Article 48 and the argument is that the Kingdom of Denmark includes both the Faroe Islands and Greenland.  Denmark continues in the European Union but Greenland and indeed the Faroe Islands are outwith EU competence, that’s the example that people cite but that should be explored, it should be examined to see if people are prepared to come to some sort of agreement on that but that’s only one of a number of options.  I doubt actually if it is the most promising option myself but nonetheless, Nicola Sturgeon is quite right to explore all options and that is exactly what should be done right now, she is the only leader who is participating in negotiations, she is the only one with a plan which is quite remarkable given that among the people who should have a plan are those who wanted Brexit in the first place.

DM: What is the most promising option in your view, Mr Salmond?  

ALEX SALMOND: Well Nicola Sturgeon is taking things in proper order and that is to establish how Scotland’s position within the European context can be protected.  That’s what people in Scotland voted for by 62% to 38%, every single area of Scotland.  She also has a mandate from May’s elections where it was made quite clear that under these circumstances, if indeed Scotland were to be threatened with being dragged out of Europe against the will of the Scottish people, then the Scottish parliament would be entitled to hold another independence referendum.  She has a perfect mandate for these situations which have been arising but she is absolutely right to take forward the express will of the Scottish people to remain part of the European framework.

DM: Now I want to ask you if you agree with something that Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister, was saying to me on this programme an hour ago, I know there is an awful lot you disagree with him about but let’s start perhaps that when it comes to the negotiations with the European Union that the UK should keep its options open and no hurry presumably then to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

ALEX SALMOND: Well I’m not certain that the European cause which is under such difficulty at the present moment is going to be greatly aided by Tony Blair’s assistance.  Look, you cannot undo what has been done, there has been a referendum in the UK and English politicians will follow the mandate they’ve been given from the people just as Nicola Sturgeon is following the mandate she’s been given from the Scottish people.  You could conjecture that the only way you could get into a different situation is if there was another general election and in that general election a party or parties were elected with a different mandate from the people then you would be in different circumstances but I’m not certain that Tony Blair’s hints and suggestions that you might undo a referendum that’s just taken place is going to be an enormous asset to the European cause at the present moment.

DM: So just on that, Mr Salmond, so if we got a majority of parties within a parliament after a general election that were unequivocally wanting to remain members of the European Union, the SNP presumably amongst them, you’re saying you might band together to overturn the referendum result?  

ALEX SALMOND: Well can I just point out, in that time scale that you’re putting forward, unless there was a snap general election which seems to be getting less likely given the mood music within the Conservative party, indeed that’s the one thing they’re united on, not to have a general election, then I think there’ll be other constitutional developments which will have overtaken these events in Scotland.  

DM: Let me ask you about potential criminal developments, we mentioned Tony Blair there, the Chilcot Inquiry finally reporting on Wednesday after six years and some.  You said in the past that there may be grounds to investigate Mr Blair’s role, in particular the deal he did or didn’t do with George W. Bush to join in the invasion of Iraq.

ALEX SALMOND: Yes, there are two things about Blair’s interview.  Firstly he  is remarkably coy, he is not going to talk to you until Wednesday.  That didn’t stop him talking to CNN last October when he apologised for other people’s actions, the famous non-apology apology or for that matter a few weeks ago to your rival programme on a Sunday morning when he was already preparing his defences  Remember, Tony Blair has seen the Chilcot Report, the passages relating to him, and has seen it for months, he has had months to prepare with his legal advisors with his PR advisors.  The families of the 179 British dead are going to get three hours of notice this coming Wednesday and that disparity of preparation and information is one of the many disgraces in the political system that we have.  The other thing about Tony Blair’s interview is he seemed puzzled as to why Jeremy Corbyn thinks he is a war criminal and why people don’t like him.  The reason is 179 British war dead, 150,000 immediate dead from the Iraq conflict, the Middle East inflames the world’s face with an existential crisis on terrorism – these are just some of the reasons perhaps he should understand why people don’t hold him in the highest regard.

DM: And Mr Salmond, have you had conversations with Jeremy Corbyn about that very issue, about practically trying to get Tony Blair to answer some of those charges you’re making?

ALEX SALMOND: No I haven’t but, well not in recent times, not since he’s become leader of the Labour party for example, there were conversations in the past but I’ve had very recent conversations with a number of Labour members of parliament and we are waiting to see Chilcot producing the evidence which believe is there which will allow action to be taken.  Now that action is going to be difficult because the most obvious crime of which Tony Blair could be charged is a war of aggression and the International Criminal Court doesn’t as yet have jurisdiction over that.  Ironically that won’t happen until next January.  The domestic courts at least in England have chosen not to pursue crimes which are international, that has been the general rule of the domestic courts in England, incidentally that’s not been tested in Scotland, Dermot.  Then the third option which many MPs are interested in subject to the findings of the Chilcot Report, is that parliamentary methods could be used to hold someone, if the evidence is there, to proper account.  But one way or another there are many MPs, and this is not a party political thing, this is across the political parties, who are absolutely determined that account has to be held to, that you cannot have a situation where this country blunders into an illegal war with the appalling consequences and at the end of the day there isn’t a reckoning.  There has to be a judicial or political reckoning for that.

DM: Okay Mr Salmond, thank you very much indeed.  Alex Salmond there, the SNP’s Foreign Affairs spokesman.