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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well now, a controversial deal between Turkey and the European Union will come into force tomorrow hoping to halt the flow of migrants across the Mediterranean.  Refugees who have arrived on Greek islands in the last fortnight will be deported back to Turkey despite a warning from, amongst others, the United Nations, that further safeguards are needed. I am joined now by the Conservative former International development Secretary, Andrew Mitchell, he’s in Nottinghamshire and a very good morning to you Mr Mitchell.  You’ve said that the EU has to send a clear message that it’s not taking refugees, is this deal with Turkey it?  

ANDREW MITCHELL: Well I think that the deal with Turkey is an important step forward.  We’ve got to stop Europe acting as a magnet for economic migrants.  Most of the people who have had to flee Syria, often under gunfire, don’t want to recreate Syria in Europe, they want to go back to the communities from which they have been driven and rebuild their country.  Clare Short, a distinguished former Development Secretary and I were on the border between Syria and Turkey just a few weeks ago and everyone we met were quite clear that they want to go back and they want the fighting there to finish as soon as possible, so in a sense this deal with Turkey and Greece is addressing the symptoms of this problem but the causes will need to be addressed very specifically by stopping the fighting and stopping the conflict as soon as possible.   

DM: But we all know in the real world that’s not going to happen any time soon and in the meantime we see people in camps all over Europe, particularly in Greece, they’re not clamouring to go back, they want to stay in Europe.

ANDREW MITCHELL: Well firstly the Turks have done an extremely good job in looking after refugees, they have done more than any other country on earth in that respect, they have more than two million, nearly three million people from Syria predominantly, in Turkey, they are looking after them. Some of the camps that these people are being looked after in are some of the best I’ve ever seen anywhere in the world, people are being trained, children are being educated, jobs and enterprise is being supported so the Turks have done a very good job and it is very important that Europe supports them and I’m very pleased that Europe has agreed to provide three billion euros this year and the same next year but at the end of the day we have got to stop this massive flow of migrants, often moving in very dangerous circumstances, into Europe.  That is not the solution.  Of course Europe should be a safe haven in some respects and Britain is taking some refugees on a very specific basis but rebuilding Syria in Europe is not the answer to this problem.

DM: But this is a practical answer and you say not an answer but a practical response to the realities, so Mr Mitchell give me your answer then to the realities of on a daily basis thousands of people in flimsy vessels departing various countries to enter the European Union?  You’re saying they mustn’t build Syria within the European Union, therefore we must turn those boats back presumably.

ANDREW MITCHELL: Well you’re not of course talking about those who are coming from all around the Mediterranean, this deal is very specifically about those who are coming from Turkey towards Greece.  When I last looked, both Greece and Turkey were holiday locations for British tourists, people fleeing from Turkey to Greece are not fleeing persecution and Turkey is the first point where they come out of Syria and into a safe haven, that is where they should be looked after and that is the basis upon which this deal with the European Union has been predicated.  

DM: Can I just ask you, related to this and indeed your former brief, this story emerging today that the International Development Department has slipped out the fact that it has over spent on the already in some people’s view rather large aid budget, it’s over spent by £172 million.  

ANDREW MITCHELL: Well even I wouldn’t argue that we should exceed the 0.7 commitment which we have made in Britain and which I am very proud to have been a member of the government which made that and implemented that commitment but as I say, if there has been an over spend that will have to be repaid from the budget this year and we should try and make sure it doesn’t happen again.  That really antagonises taxpayers, I’ve seen some of these stories in the Sunday press today which are largely inaccurate in what they are saying I’m afraid but at the end of the day, the 0.7 commitment that the British taxpayers are making has to be spent well.  Of course it has to be spent in creating safe conflict-free and prosperous societies overseas and not in any way supporting migration.  The whole reason for the international development commitment that was made by the coalition and confirmed by the Conservative government is to build prosperous and safe societies overseas, to use climate change funding overseas, to stop massive migration which is one of the greatest challenges of our generation.

DM: Well let’s relate that number as well to some of the suggestions in the papers today, the £172 million, that it could be spent bailing out and helping the steel workers. As a man who is out of government and knows the way it works, how do you think the government has been handling this issue?

ANDREW MITCHELL: Well I think that the attacks on Sajid Javid have been extremely unfair.  He was quite right to go as the Business Secretary to Australia and he has returned and he is now very focused on doing everything we can to help the steel industry in Port Talbot.  I think it’s worth pointing out that he has a strong industrial and business background, he is exactly the right man to be helping address this problem and I think we should all give him that support.  Now what is required in my view are three things: first of all we need to stabilise the situation and ensure that no decisions are made in a great rush.  Secondly we need to vigorously address this issue of Chinese dumping and what we do to protect indigenous steel industries within Europe from that and thirdly, we need to be very clear that we are not in some way through green taxes and charges penalising heavy energy users in Britain in a way that does not affect our European counterparts and competitors.  So those second two strategic things need to be done as fast as possible but we do need to ensure that we preserve the time to ensure that we are able to maintain an effective steel industry in Britain, these assets at Port Talbot have been pretty fundamental to British economic growth, they have also been fundamental to the livelihoods and jobs of a very large number of people concentrated in that area and we should do everything we possibly can to ensure that a viable industry emerges from this.  How it’s owned seems to me to be a secondary matter, ensuring that a viable industry if at all possible emerges is the most important thing we can do.

DM: Great to talk to you Mr Mitchell, thank you very much indeed for your time. Andrew Mitchell there.