ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: As Boris Johnson and Michael Gove attack the Prime Minister’s failure to reduce immigration saying it’s had a corrosive effect on public trust, Sir John Major has in turn accused their campaign of being crass and distorted.  Certainly the rhetoric is ramping up around what Tony Blair is calling the most important decision for Britain since 1945 although the current Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has also not been immune from it all with some criticising him for being somewhat absent from the scene.  Well his Shadow Home Secretary, Andy Burnham, certainly isn’t and he joins me now from Leigh in Greater Manchester.  A very good morning to you Mr Burnham, well let’s pick through some of that introduction, first of all the intervention from your former leader Tony Blair, could that be counterproductive given his level of popularity at the moment in the country.

ANDY BURNHAM: No, of course people will listen to a former Prime Minister including Sir John Major who said something similar today, Dermot.  I think two ex-Prime Ministers, that carries a lot of weight doesn’t it and we hear these comments today from Mr Gove and Mr Johnson, well to be honest I would say back them you are all dishonest because you stood on a pledge in your manifesto on immigration under which there was no clear plan so don’t come back now at this stage of the game.  I think what we’re seeing is the Leave side having had their economic case collapse around them are now scaremongering on immigration and it’s not a pretty sight.

DM: But on this issue of the Prime Minister’s pledge to get net migration down to the tens of thousands, it’s something Labour never did.  Do you believe the Prime Minister has left himself wide open on the Remain side because of that?

ANDY BURNHAM: I think he was wrong, Dermot, to make that pledge because in or out of the European Union I think it would be hard to see how it could be delivered any time soon because this is what the Leave side won’t say, if they say they want to do a deal for Britain with the European Union, as Norway has found there will be conditions about free movement that come with that deal and that’s why I say they are being dishonest and they are scaremongering.  Yes, of course, there are legitimate concerns about migration, levels of migration, pressure on public services, pressure on wages.  I speak a lot about those things because I recognise those as real concerns, my message to voters though in these final days is those concerns don’t outweigh the much bigger risk to our economy if we choose to leave and that is a risk that is clearly spelled out today on the front page of the Observer by 90% of economists questioned.  We never get such unanimity amongst economists but we are getting it on this question – Britain’s economy will be damaged if we vote to leave and I think that message now is really beginning to get through.

DM: What do you say to those within your own party who are making assessments at this point?  You are sounding pretty confident there that the economic argument is being won and therefor that is probably the lynchpin of winning the whole thing but the campaign to remain is done, they think, you’re a Labour supporter and you don’t like the Conservatives and they seem to be fighting like cats in a sack.  Let them get on with it and hence that explains Mr Corbyn’s rather lukewarm interventions.

ANDY BURNHAM: You might remember, Dermot, last year when I stood for the Labour leadership I proposed that Labour should have a separate in campaign and I am very glad that what is one of the things I said last year came to pass and we set that up and led superbly by Alan Johnson, that has been able to make the argument.  If you take an issue like immigration which is a difficult issue in many Labour areas, the challenge for us is to take on board people’s legitimate concerns but at the same time to remind people that this is a mixed picture.  Immigration is a two way street, there were figures out in the middle of last week showing that over 400,000 younger Brits are working abroad around Europe and also I would say to many of my constituents how many older people like to have a couple of months away in the warmer parts of Europe in the winter …

DM: I’m sorry, Shadow Home Secretary, I’m only interrupting because that wasn’t the question, the question was about Labour voters who want to remain making the assessment that they feel the campaign is going well to remain, therefore for the rest of the time available let the Conservatives fight it out amongst themselves and Labour may profit.  

ANDY BURNHAM: Oh sorry, I misheard your question Dermot.  Well I would say absolutely not.  This is bigger than party politics isn’t it, that’s the straightforward answer to your question and I would say that to everybody. The vote that people cast in just over three weeks’ will be the single most important vote they will ever cast in their adult life  because it will determine Britain’s position in the world, how we see ourselves, how the rest of the world see us so whichever way we vote this is utterly crucial.  So it goes way beyond the ebbs and flows of party politics, it is about deciding what kind of country we want to be, how we see ourselves in the 21st century. It is that serious and to be honest with you I think at times the quality of the debate hasn’t risen to the occasion, it’s not been good enough and it hasn’t given people the clarity and the facts that they’re after and hopefully in these last few weeks that will come through and I hope people will put fairly narrow party political considerations aside.

DM: What do you think about this from a back bencher within the Conservative party, Andrew Bridgen, saying that even if the Remain side win and especially if it happens narrowly, the party will come gunning for Mr Cameron, the Prime Minister could be removed and he said he could face a General Election in the autumn.  Is your party ready for that, is Jeremy Corbyn ready for it?

ANDY BURNHAM: We’re ready whenever it comes, Dermot but I would say to Mr Bridgen that I think he’s part of the problem, internal squabbling at a moment like this is turning the public off, people want to see the issues debated, what will happen to jobs if we leave, what will happen to our security.  People want a proper debate, a quality debate about those things, they don’t want to see politicians positioning themselves for what happens after.  This question is bigger than all of that and that would be my message at this moment in time.  Look at what’s at stake, look at the risks to our economy that are being pointed out today, focus on the big picture not the sideshows that are taking place all around us and on the basis of the bigger picture and the strategic interests of our country, vote to Remain on the 23rd June.

DM: Shadow Home Secretary, thank you very much indeed, Andy Burnham there in Leigh.