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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: So British air strikes could become a reality in Syria before Christmas according to reports this morning, if of course they get the backing of parliament.  Dozens of Labour MPs are said to be ready to defy their leader and support the government but still the Scottish National Party could be the key.  Last week the party’s leader, Nicola Sturgeon, said she was prepared to ‘listen’ quote/unquote, to the case for supporting air strikes.  I am joined now by Angus Robertson, the SNP’s Westminster leader, he’s in Garmouth in Moray, a very good morning to you Mr Robertson.  

ANGUS ROBERTSON: Good morning from sunny Speyside.  

DM: Lovely to see it and after Paris and your leader’s comments there about approaching what Mr Cameron might say with an open mind, is the SNP in Westminster getting closer to supporting the government should it put forward a proposal to sanction air strikes in Syria?

ANGUS ROBERTSON: Well we’ll always look at things on their merits, that’s what the First Minister said and she is quite right to do so, this is an extremely serious issue.  Of course it is not just about bombing, it shouldn’t just be about bombing, it’s about the whole approach to Syria, what are we doing that can actually help end the civil war there, flush out the terrorists of Daesh and ensure that we don’t have ungoverned spaces in large parts of Syria and Iraq which are filled with terrorists.  Those are the challenges that the Prime Minister is turning his mind to and we wish him well in coming up with the manageable plan which is not just about short term military intervention but is about longer term engagement to win the peace because of course that is not what has happened in Afghanistan, in Iraq and Libya and shouldn’t just be reacting to the horrific situation in Paris or indeed in Sinai or in Turkey, there have been quite a number of terrorist attacks in recent weeks, by suggesting that something needs to be done and that bombing is the only answer.  

DM: In pursuit of that longer term solution, those that say let’s be realistic about this, there are never going to be British or American boots on the ground for a long time in the region again, the only ones that are there and are going to stay are those of Assad’s regime in Syria.  Is that something that the SNP could support, backing Assad?

ANGUS ROBERTSON: Well you are highlighting the challenge which is beyond bombing, what is going to secure the peace on the ground and frankly nobody has come up with a suggestion that I’ve heard that sounds appealing.  It is definitely not appealing to support the Assad regime, it is an horrific dictatorship which has treated its people so badly for decades.  There are combatants on the ground that we support, the Peshmerga, the Kurds for example but the opposition, the mainstream and moderate opposition in Syria is very small and is as we speak being bombed by the Russians so it’s a very complicated situation and that is one of the challenges for David Cameron.  Unless he can point out who is going to provide boots on the ground there is no prospect of having medium and long term stability in Syria and in Iraq and that’s a fundamental problem and it is one of the biggest challenges that he has because bombing isn’t going to sort out that problem and the problem of not having stability on the ground means that terrorists groups like Daesh can remain and can flourish.  We shouldn’t forget of course that after intervening in Afghanistan to deal with Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, the Taliban is now back and is running a large part of Afghanistan.  So that didn’t solve that problem and bombing alone is not going to solve this problem.  We shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that there isn’t a shortage of bombing in Syria, the Americans are bombing, the French are bombing, the Russians are bombing, the list goes on.  It’s how do we secure the medium and long term peace that is the challenge for all of us.

DM: I take it from all that, Mr Robertson, that you are minded to still oppose British involvement in bombing Syria.  

ANGUS ROBERTSON: I am not yet persuaded.  We have said to the Prime Minister we are prepared to listen to the arguments, I think everybody who is interested in the subject should read the report of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the House of Commons which has a Conservative party majority. They published a report in the last few weeks and they laid out a series of questions that they thought that the UK government had to answer in relation to Syria policy.  Now the Prime Minister says he wants to answer those questions, that is a good thing, because we should all be thinking about what we should do but we haven’t heard anything that persuades us yet, no.

DM: Mentioning that committee, you’ll know its Chair, Crispin Blunt, has changed his mind, he has said it explicitly, he would now support military action.

ANGUS ROBERTSON: Well that’s Crispin’s point of view and he is entitled to it of course.  We are listening to what the Prime Minister is going to say, he hasn’t yet said it, he hasn’t published a plan, he hasn’t given his rationale, he has suggested that he wants to bomb in Syria like many other countries but he has not said what the UK is going to be able to do to secure the peace in the medium and long term in Syria.  It’s what we want to hear, it’s what the international community signed up to only last week in Vienna, a very detailed plan including the Russians, including the Iranians and that’s very welcome, saying what we need to do as an international community.  I would hope that the Prime Minister would focus on what was agreed in Vienna rather than suggesting that the only solution to the problem is bombing.  It can’t be, there is so much more that we need to do, not least dealing with the hundreds of people from the UK who have gone out to fight in Syria and have begun to return.

DM: A quick thought on the autumn statement, the comprehensive spending review, Mr Robertson.  It seems some pretty swingeing cuts are coming down the line, do you think it’s right to have all these protected departments and protected areas of spending?

ANGUS ROBERTSON: Well the big picture for me in terms of strategic defence and security review is that we seem likely to get the green light from the government towards renewal of the Trident nuclear weapon system and we’ve heard from Crispin Blunt who you mentioned a moment ago, the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, he believes the cost of those will be £167 billion, it’s a mammoth amount of spending which will crowd out the ability in the MoD to provide the funds which are necessary for other things.  I’m speaking to you from the Moray Firth, looking to the north where regularly we have visits from Russian aircraft carriers and aircraft and the UK is not in a position to launch a single maritime patrolled aircraft because it doesn’t have any.  So what this SDSR is an opportunity to do is to provide the different platforms, the capabilities that the military requires and maritime patrolled aircraft are one of them, and at the same time has the opportunity to get rid of things that we don’t need and can never use and that’s Trident.  So we need to get the right capabilities but we also have to have the right posture and as I pointed out, given where I am, looking to the north we have the Iceland gap, to the west the Atlantic, to the east the North Sea – we are in a vital geo-strategic location but we don’t have the necessary aircraft, we don’t have the necessary ocean going patrol vessels and we don’t have the political will in the UK with a government that is looking to our near neighbourhood to do what we need to do.  The SDSR could change that, I hope the government will do that but I have my doubts.

DM: All right, we’re out of time, sorry about that Mr Robertson, very good talking to you though, Angus Robertson there, the SNP’s Westminster leader.