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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, reports this morning if you have been reading the papers or watching the TV, of a Conservative rebellion – not over Europe this time but over Sunday trading.  Dozens of Conservative backbenchers are expected to oppose plans to relax the laws in England and Wales.  Well I’m joined now by Brandon Lewis, the Communities Minister, he’s in Brentwood in Essex, a very good morning to you Mr Lewis.  So what do you say to your Conservative colleagues who are against, and implacably against, this idea?  

BRANDON LEWIS: Well I hope they will look at the amendment we made actually just a couple of days ago.  You know, this morning I’ve come down, it’s Mother’s Day, to visit my mother in Brentwood and when you drive round the town centre you can see people around but they can’t go into the actual shops.  They can maybe get a coffee but they can’t shop and people want to do that and we want to make sure that we give more consumers the flexibility and the freedom on Sundays to do what’s right for them, what they want to do, particularly if they are professionals, in other professions, teachers, nurses, people like that, doctors, particularly if they are working six days a week, having that more flexibility at weekends as well to choose when they shop.  But ultimately what we are really doing is devolving the power so that power, that decision will rest with local communities, councils like mine in Great Yarmouth working out, in consultation with their local residents, what is right for them.   They know their areas best, they can make the right decisions.

DM: But it’s the timing as much as anything for your party.  As I said in the first question there, there are those within your party who feel very strongly that they are not going to give way on this one, does the party need this at the time you are divided over the European referendum?

BRANDON LEWIS: Well I’ve been talking to colleagues and there are colleagues across the House who have concerns about making sure that if we are going to do it in a way that reserves people’s right to have that flexibility to keep Sunday as a day to relax and that’s why we’ve increased the rights for workers, really improving workers’ rights and their accessibility to understand what those rights are so over the next few days colleagues across the House will look at that but also appreciate that what we’re doing is devolving power. We’re putting that power, that decision, into local authorities.  Hundreds of council leaders have written in and asked us to devolve this power to local councils, they know their areas best, they know what they want to do to give their high streets the chance to compete with online shops.  Let’s be frank, Sunday is the biggest online shopping day of the week and our high streets are shut out of that opportunity for a big chunk of the day.  We want to make sure that local leaders, local communities, can take a view about what is right for them and use it for the benefit of their high street as well as giving more flexibility, if they want to, to families to have that flexibility through the week to choose how they spend their spare time.

DM: It’s interesting what you say about taking control of decision making isn’t it, could we extrapolate it to the role of the EU and the EU referendum and say – because you are saying why let the government tell you when you can’t open shops and things like that, well why let the EU for instance tell us how many hours you can work a week and things like that?  You can be making an argument for leaving the European Union.

BRANDON LEWIS: Well actually I would say that what you are outlining there is a very good reason why for all people being a member of the European Union is really important. I’m not for a moment saying it is perfect and we want to make sure that we continue to reform and be part of that debate to make it better.  What we’re doing with the changes to Sunday Trading, the legislation as we’ve laid it over the last few days, improves workers’ rights.  The European Union and our voice in the European Union has played a huge part in improving protection for workers over the last few years.  I represent an area in Great Yarmouth where we’ve got a burgeoning energy industry and we’ve seen a fall of roughly 50% unemployment in Great Yarmouth since 2010 as the energy grows.  We’ve just had £2.5 billion worth of contracts announced for my area – that is intrinsically linked to us being part and partners with the European Union and I have to say that is something that worries companies across my area, that that is actually at any chance of being at threat and the uncertainty of what happens if we pull out so I think it’s important that we are part of that, particularly with the new deal which actually makes sure we get a single market for the energy industry.  It’s good for my constituency but I actually think right across the piece it’s good for business.

DM: What do you think of the charge coming from Boris Johnson that your side are the agents of Project Fear?  You’re scare-mongering too much.

BRANDON LEWIS: Well I think Boris is a fantastic politician, I work with Boris on London issues as a Communities Minister as well, we happen to disagree on this issue.  I think it is important that people who are arguing for out actually have to outline what that looks like, what that feels like.  We know what being part of the European Union means, we know that means we’ve got a loud voice at the table where we’ve got a market of 500 million people and we export roughly 50% to the European Union while only importing around 7% of their goods so it is very clear we should be at the table, working with the European Union to get further trade deals as well beyond the 60 that we already see as being part of the European Union.  I think that’s a hugely important economic base for us and within that we can continue to argue for what we want, to get it a competitive healthy environment for our economy in the future as well as our security.

DM: And just a quick thought also as Housing Minister on the Housing Bill wending its way through parliament at the moment, particularly the extension of the right to buy, this statistic that 40% of former council housing ends up in the hands of private landlords who are then renting them out presumably at increased rents?  It doesn’t actually help people get on the housing ladder.

BRANDON LEWIS: Well I’m very proud to be taking the Housing and Planning Bill through parliament.  It delivers on two of our key manifesto pledges, remember we are the party that actually put housing front and centre of the agenda and at the last couple of party conferences both the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have been very clear at the sending review that we put housing right at the top of the agenda and on right to buy …

DM: Sorry to interrupt, time is limited, this specific point that people are buying these houses at a discount, cashing in, handing them on to the private landlords who are then jacking up the rents?

BRANDON LEWIS: Well one of the challenges, as I was going to say very directly, I am proud we are extending the ownership opportunity to 1.3 million more people.  It is important that when people get that ownership of their home, they have the same rights as any other home owner.  We all have the right to choose what to do with our property and I have to say one of the problems with right to buy is under 13 years of Labour, for every 170 properties that were sold, they built just one.  We’ve put that right, in the reinvigorated scheme moving forward, for every home that’s sold at least one extra home will be built.  That increases housing supply and that is why we have been able to be certain about building our affordable housing at the fastest rate in 20 years.  We’ve built more council houses in the last four or five years than Labour did in 13 so I think we’ve got a very strong record but we need to go further.

DM: Okay, so what you are saying is people have the right to buy and what they do with it after that is up to them so if they take their profit and hand it on to private landlords, so be it?  

BRANDON LEWIS: Well people first when they buy their home have continued living in it but what they do when they get that full right of home ownership is up to them. I don't think it’s right that we would create a second class type of home owner is what the Labour party is arguing for.  I think all home owners should use their homes to live in them and use them in the way that any home owner would, that is what home ownership is about and the ability to have that right I think is absolutely intrinsically part of what we should be offering people.  After all, 86% of our population want the chance to own their own home and I’m proud that we are doing that and we’re going further with starter homes by building more homes for first time buyers as well as extending the right to buy.

DM: Okay, Minister, thank you very much indeed.  Brandon Lewis there.