Murnaghan Interview with Caroline Flint, Shadow Energy Secretary, 26.07.15

ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now the fight for control of the Labour party is becoming really nasty.  We’ve had name calling, accusations of sexism and now reports of far left infiltration of the party and there are still seven weeks to go before it’s all over.  So what state will the party be in by then?  I am joined now by the Shadow Energy Secretary, Caroline Flint, who of course is a candidate for the Deputy Leadership of the party and a very good morning to you. Well first of all, these reports of infiltration by the hard left using the new membership process and becoming associated with the party to get in there.  Have you seen first of all any new members of your constituency party that you might be a bit suspicious about?

CAROLINE FLINT: We have had new members but nothing that causes me concern.  Look, what I would say is to anybody who feels there is evidence of people who for example are in parties that campaigned against us or who nominated candidates against Labour at the last general election, provide that evidence to Harriet Harman and the party so that they can scrutinise it.

DM: It’s an almighty task though, just the physical task if you are getting tens of thousands of new members, do you have the personnel and the resources within the Labour party to check them all our thoroughly?

CAROLINE FLINT: Well that’s for the Labour party to answer but the truth is we have a process where people are meant to reassure the Labour party that they support the values of the Labour party and as I said, if people have got evidence that there are people who were in other parties for example, from the right or the left, who stood candidates against the Labour party, campaigned against the Labour party, I would suggest that evidence be passed on to Harriet and the party because it is very important, Dermot, that party members who have stood through the party through thick and thin, who go out and deliver the leaflets and knock on the doors, that they feel confident that the integrity of this process is there and there is a process to do that and to provide the evidence to the party.

DM: Okay but what do you think about John Mann, your colleague’s suggestion that the whole process needs to be suspended while issues such as you’re describing and that process is gone through?

CAROLINE FLINT: No, look, I  think we have had a few reports in the paper, John has made some claims this morning and I think it is important that anybody who has got any evidence of this, pass it on to the party.  For my part and with my colleagues who are standing in the Deputy Leadership contest, we have just had our last, if you like, official hustings yesterday, I think overall it has been well-natured, there has been people supporting different candidates in the leadership and in the deputy leadership and I think those hustings were reflective of the party but let’s remember this, both at nomination meetings and in the hustings meetings, that’s a fraction of the membership of our party and when I say a fraction of the membership of our party I am talking about the fully paid up members of our party who have been with the party not only in the last five years but many of them for many years before that.

DM: So you don’t see any parallels, with John Mann and others saying parallels with the 1980s and the Militant Tendency getting inside the very heart of the Labour party?

CAROLINE FLINT: Look, I lived through the 1980s, I joined the Labour party in 1979 when we lost that general election so I know how hard fought we worked during the 80s to make sure our party was in a position to win and what I’m standing for as deputy leader is saying quite clearly that Labour wins when we build broad based coalitions across the country.  It worked for Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, it worked for Harold Wilson, it worked for Clement Atlee and we need support from all classes and backgrounds and corners of the UK and reach out, reach out to people.   What I’ve said very clearly this morning, Dermot, if people have evidence that there are members of other parties who have campaigned or stood against us in the last election then that should be passed on to the party.

DM: And I suppose there is another danger isn’t there, that on the John Mann suggestion, if it were suspended the whole process, those and many thousands of them it seems who support Jeremy Corbyn will say you are suspending it to rig the election process.

CAROLINE FLINT: I have no reason to support a suspension of this process, I think the process is continuing and actually, despite all the press conference and speculation about this, we are going through a process which has got at least another two months to go and beyond the hustings and the meetings that we’re all having as candidates around the country and the nomination process, people will have a chance to vote and there is a huge number of party members who for one reason or another haven’t been able to come to the hustings, haven’t gone to their nomination meetings and they will be voting and what I would say to all the party members, whoever you choose, look it isn’t just about someone who ticks the boxes for you and the Labour party, it’s about a leadership team that can reach out to those SNP voters, Tory and UKIP voters who we need to get back to support Labour.

DM: And what about the issue of gender and that huge row that has broken out in the leadership level certainly, Yvette Cooper saying that the Burnham camp is suggesting that women are incapable of holding the top jobs, do you support Yvette on that?

CAROLINE FLINT: What I support is that we have more women going for the top jobs.  Do you remember five years ago when actually the discussion then, and  we only had the leadership contest, was that there was no woman on the ballot paper and then Diane came onto the ballot paper and actually the big debate then was what is going on, we haven’t got women.  Both in the leadership and the deputy leadership contest we have got a great variety of women with all their strengths that they are putting out there to win support on.  I think it’s really important that actually we recognise that nobody should be dropping out of this, that everyone has to prove themselves and let’s do this in a friendly way.

DM: But do you support Yvette Cooper, Liz Kendall of course making the point as well in a different form, this coming from Charlie Falconer, Lord Falconer, a key Burnham supporter and the headline to the article he wrote, the headline in the Times was ‘Women are not tough enough to lead Labour’ and that made lots of people cross, are you cross?

CAROLINE FLINT: Well I’m known as being pretty tough, as you know Dermot and that headline, I completely disagree with that headline.  When I’ve looked into what Charlie Falconer said I’m not sure he quite said that.

DM: So Yvette Cooper is misrepresenting Charlie Falconer?

CAROLINE FLINT: No, what I’m saying is I don’t agree with a headline that says that women aren’t tough enough to lead our party, I think they are and the truth is I think what the article by Charlie Falconer, from what I read, was he was putting up for his candidate which is Andy Burnham.  He has a particular choice and …

DM: So Yvette Cooper has misread it.

CAROLINE FLINT: No.

DM: Well Yvette Cooper has said, and these are in her own words, this isn’t a misrepresentation, Yvette Cooper has said it is as if they are trying to take us back to the 1950s, quote/unquote, ‘Treating women as incapable of the top jobs’, that’s what she read into that article.  

CAROLINE FLINT: I think the press headlines about this, the way …

DM: This isn’t a press headline though, this is a quote from Yvette Cooper, your colleague.

CAROLINE FLINT: No, I’m talking about the press headline you put to me which was that women I think aren’t tough enough for the top job, right, that headline I completely disagree with and it is ridiculous to say we are not tough enough for the top jobs.  I am standing for it and I am known as being pretty tough.  What I would say is to all candidates in this contest, focus on your appeal to the party members and how you are going to win the election in 2020, that’s what’s important.  

DM: But I don't think the audience will be fully clear on whether or not you agree with Yvette Cooper in quotes, she may well be the next leader of the Labour party, saying that the Burnham camp are treating women as incapable of the top jobs, do you agree with Yvette Cooper’s analysis of the Burnham campaign?

CAROLINE FLINT: Yvette has her own view, if that’s what she said about the Burnham campaign.  My view is that they are all competing for this top job, right and I think across the camps they should get on with promoting themselves for the top job and their appeal not just to party members but beyond that.  But be very clear about this, right, I think  candidates have to be mindful of the things they say which can give a perception somehow that there is a gender divide, now there isn’t on this.  If what supporters of Andy are saying is that they think he is the best person for the job and nobody else can unify the party, I think then they should have included all the other candidates in that statement.  I’m not getting involved in the leadership contest, whoever wins this if I am Deputy Leader they will be having my support and my job is to focus whoever that choice is, is on the big challenge to win in 2020.

DM: And if you are not Deputy Leader would you be prepared to serve in a Corbyn cabinet?  Shadow cabinet.   Well maybe a cabinet if he becomes leader and wins.

CAROLINE FLINT: Well first of all I wouldn’t be presumptuous enough to suggest I should have a place as a right, the question is that actually the leader, whoever is leader at the present time can choose who they want in the Shadow Cabinet but I think I can help the party.

DM: But no objection to working with Jeremy Corbyn?

CAROLINE FLINT: No, look, whatever is the outcome, whatever is the outcome of the Deputy Leadership contest I will be fighting, as I have done for 36 years, I joined the Labour party in 1979, I come from a background, I was the daughter of a lone parent, I’ve lived on benefits under my mother and I’ve lived on benefits myself and I know what it’s like to [need/lead?] a Labour government and for many, many years through thick and thin, I have stood by the party and whatever happens, whatever happens in the leadership contest or the deputy leader, I will be with my party all the way to 2020.

DM: Caroline Flint, great to see you, thank you very much indeed.