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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Of course before the EU referendum rolled into town top of the agenda at Westminster was the future of thousands of Tata steel workers up and down the UK.  Whilst the company yesterday confirmed the sale of its Scunthorpe plant that could save about 3000 steel worker’s jobs, the future of thousands of others at Port Talbot in Wales remains in doubt.  Well Carwyn Jones is the First Minister of Wales and he joins me now from Bridgend.  A very good morning to you Mr Jones, update us, you must be party to the twists and turns of all this, what is the likelihood of saving the Port Talbot steelworks and those jobs whether still within Tata’s control or another buyer?  

CARWYN JONES: Good morning, Dermot.  There is still a chance, I was in Mumbai on Wednesday and what’s encouraging is there are seven bidders who have come forward to buy all of Tata’s assets in the UK, it would have been far more difficult of course if there had have been none, and Tata are now looking at those bids.  Now if people thought, if companies thought that the steel industry had no future, they wouldn’t come forward in the first place so that hurdle has been crossed but there are a number of hurdles to jump yet before we get to a position where the steel making end of Port Talbot particularly can look to the future.  

DM: But do you think that this issue of the pension fund could unlock it but there are concerns then about the knock on effect on other similar types of pension funds and what might have to change in terms of legislation, that could scupper it?

CARWYN JONES: Well there are two things that could scupper it: pensions, absolutely right, nobody is going to buy these plants if the pension fund is still there.  UK government I know are looking at this, the last thing I want to see is the pension fund going into the pension protection fund because that means there is a loss of benefits to those who are pensioners now and those who contribute in the future but there are other ways of doing it.  The second issue is EU membership, all these buyers are holding off to see what the result is on the 23rd of June and I have no doubt they’ll run if they find that the UK has left.  

DM: And any sense, I alluded to it in my first question there, that Tata if it is all made attractive enough and the changes are made, Tata might want to hold onto it?  

CARWYN JONES: Well what we need is a buyer with commitment to the future.  We’ve put money on the table, we’ve put a package on the table, UK government will do the same thing, they have greater resources than we have so there is an attractive package there.  For me it is not so much a question of who runs it, it is a question of the commitment to make sure that the industry develops in the future.  Now if Tata were to continue to run it in the future I’d want assurances that they are committed to the long term.  That’s for another day, we know there are other businesses who are looking to take the assets over and for me it is all about keeping jobs, it’s about preserving the jobs of people that work there, the communities that they live in, to make sure that they have a thriving future.

DM: Okay and just a question about your party, Mr Jones, you are reconfirmed as First Minister finally of course but it was quite a tortuous process because the party didn’t win that outright majority in the elections.  Do you think part of that, now you’ve looked into it, part of that was down to what’s going on in the party as a whole within the UK?  You were a bit damaged in Wales by that.   

CARWYN JONES: No, I don't think so at all.  We are used to fighting elections here, Welsh elections and I am not going to pretend to you that what happens at UK level in London doesn’t have an effect, of course it does but we have never won a majority, no party has ever won a majority with the electoral system that we have, we’re used to dealing with other parties.  The system that we have is one where of course there are opposition parties but people do talk to each other. For five years up until last month we were in a position where we had 30 out of 60, we’re in a position now where we have 29 out 60.  Yes, we have the one Liberal Democrat who has joined us in government but we’re used to dealing with other parties so for us this is really something which is normal for us.  The kind of adversarial approach you get in Westminster is there in the Assembly but it doesn’t stop parties working together to get things done.  

DM: But you are trying to form, and have been forming, a distinctive Welsh Labour voice?  

CARWYN JONES: Well that’s been the case since 1999, you have to demonstrate to people in a Welsh election that you are sufficiently Welsh, if I can do it that way, that you are not in a position where you take your orders from outside.  That’s what UKIPs position is that but from our perspective when you fight a Welsh election you have to show that you have policies that have been created in Wales, that have been thought through in Wales and that are appropriate to Wales. That is exactly what we’ve done and if you fight an election, a Welsh Assembly election, the leader of the party is the leader of Welsh Labour and that’s the way it has to be.  

DM: All right, First Minister, very good to talk to you.  Carwyn Jones there.