ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, Nigel Farage has said he will stand down as UK Independence Party Leader if he doesn’t get elected as an MP in May and that’s a real possibility so who might take over if there is a leadership contest.  I am joined now by Diane James, UKIP’s spokeswoman for Home Affairs and a very good morning to you.  I bet you can’t guess what question is coming your way – you wouldn’t mind having a crack at the leadership if Mr Farage doesn’t make it?  

DIANE JAMES: Well Nigel is going to take Thanet South so it doesn’t really matter, it is pure speculation.   

DM: Okay, so here we go through the rigmarole, what if he doesn’t?  Or even if he does, when he does leave and you are still a member of UKIP presumably, would you like to have a go at the leadership?  

DIANE JAMES: No, I’ve ruled myself out of that on numerous occasions and I have not changed my mind.  

DM: So under no circumstances?  

DIANE JAMES: No, none whatsoever.  

DM: Okay, well that’s categorical, thank you very much indeed, you don’t normally hear that from a politician, you have no ambitions even if asked or pushed?   

DIANE JAMES: No, none whatsoever.  

DM: Okay, good.   So what about the polling at the moment?  You don’t seem, although you’ve been declared a major party by the broadcasting regulator, you are getting your fair share of exposure, you are getting these party election broadcasts, the polls aren’t moving in the right direction.  

DIANE JAMES: Yes, they are.  I was asked during the week, the ploy from the Conservative party was that we were flatlining, that we were in decline.  You can see for yourself and readers can see for themselves with all of the media today, all the press, that’s not the case so unfortunately the Conservative party spin on that is just not coming to pass and I think they must be very, very worried by the strength of the UKIP vote and how it is holding up.

DM: But the fact of it is, what we have been hearing from the Prime Minister today and in one of the newspapers, the Sunday Times today, where would you like someone to go if they decide UKIP is not quite right for me at this time?  Who would you like them to vote for?  You want a referendum don’t you so which party would you like them to vote for?

DIANE JAMES: If we look at what happened this week in terms of Junker’s message, it was covered up very carefully and quickly but he made, he totally undermined the Conservative party pledge to hold a referendum in 2017.  He was absolutely categoric, there would now not be a referendum or any if you like acceptance of a UK referendum result until 2019 so in fact you only now have one party whose pledge and commitment is to an EU exit and a EU referendum to make that happen, is UKIP, it’s as simple as that.  

DM: But people are free to do what they would with their votes.  

DIANE JAMES: Correct.  

DM: UKIP supporters who supported you in the European elections perhaps and in local elections decide on this general election Nigel Farage is never going to be Prime Minister, even if he is elected.  It’s either Mr Cameron or Mr Miliband and even if I’m holding my nose, I have to vote for Mr Cameron.  That’s the way you’d go as well isn’t it?

DIANE JAMES: No, it isn’t.  If you take Heywood and Middleton, that’s a very good, a very recent example, if those 3000 Conservative voters and I am assuming the point of your question is tactical voting, if those 3000 Conservative voters now switch to UKIP in that particular constituency, UKIP will take that.  So this is then a direct example, a very clear example of vote UKIP, get UKIP.

DM: Well let’s stay with that and you get a number of MPs, those UKIP MPs, if a deal needs to be done, would only go to support the Conservative party at the moment because they are the only ones who would give you a referendum.  

DIANE JAMES: Nigel, UKIP’s leader, has made it abundantly clear, there is no coalition deal on the table.  He has given one red line which is an EU referendum, we now know that the Labour party and the Liberal Democrats is a categoric no and we also now know that the Conservative party can’t deliver so it’s only one obviously option left which is to vote UKIP and then we will see what happens on May 8th and the days following that.

DM: And you would support, not in coalition, you would support  minority Conservative administration?  

DIANE JAMES: We have said we will support on a confidence and supply basis, a very, very big difference between actually going into coalition.  

DM: It still requires negotiations though.  

DIANE JAMES: Oh I don’t doubt that but that is the sort of negotiation that Nigel would be undertaking and for instance Paul Nuttall, our Deputy Leader and other senior members of the party.

DM: I wanted to ask you about the news, the breaking news, the main story in the news today because it has a bearing on immigration, the terrible humanitarian crisis taking place in the Mediterranean with thousands of people, drowning, desperate to come to Europe and the southern European nations that have been dealing in the main with this, they seem to have withdrawn some of their patrols, the mechanisms to help these people when they do get into difficulties in their flimsy vessels they are setting to sea in, are not there anymore.  What do you think about that?

DIANE JAMES: Well the first point is you are now looking at the consequences of an absolutely incoherent and failed foreign affairs policy from France and Britain.  Nobody liked Gaddafi, don’t get me wrong, but whether you liked him or not, his country Libya was stable.  Since he’s been removed that country has been completely destabilised, there’s no functioning government and therefore the traffickers and the whole migrant problem has just exploded.  The EU is also now at fault for encouraging the traffickers because there is no mechanism to stop them, they are not even looking at a good marine patrol system to actually stop those boats leaving port and they have even suggested setting up migrant centres in the African continent to allow people to move.  

DM: And that’s the way forward is it?  Let me put it bluntly to you, there are those and not just in UKIP, who are saying – reading the social media – who are saying well look, it is an unfortunate thing that has to happen here but if we make it very clear that it is very, very dangerous, potentially fatal if you attempt to come to Europe via the means with which you are choosing, the only means you have, because we will not help you, we will not send our vessels out to pick you up if your boat gets into difficulty, that is the main deterrent.  

DIANE JAMES: That is a very, very, what I call beating the stick type of approach.  I would far rather see an element of carrot to say no let’s look at our overseas aid budget and obviously the contributions from other European member states and from across the world and invest in Saharan and sub-Saharan Africa and actually give people the chance and the wish and the interest if you like and the means to stay in their countries rather than think that the only way to a good lifestyle, the only way to realise their aspiration and ambition is to come to Europe.  

DM: The reality is though, whatever happens in the future, a thousand people we are hearing from the Italians alone, a thousand people a day are landing on their shores.  Is there anything the UK should do to help them with those pressures?

DIANE JAMES: Well we are a humanitarian country, we’ve signed up to the act which will give genuine asylum seekers the right to come to this country.  What we’ve got to do is stop them actually being attracted to Libya in the first case and other ports, work with whatever means we can to stop those boats being supplied to actually bring them across the Mediterranean, allow them to embark on that very, very dangerous journey but also genuinely, as I’ve mentioned already, provide the investment and the means to keep those people in their countries.  We can’t just keep on allowing this degree of economic migrancy to continue, it’s destabilising across the board.  

DM: Okay, last question on this issue, you’ve talked about it, of the boorishness and chauvinism within your party.

DIANE JAMES: I haven’t, if you don’t mind.   

DM: Okay, well others have.  Patrick O’Flynn admitted …

DIANE JAMES: A rugby tour.  

DM: A rugby club on tour.  Other parties have that problem as well, is UKIP changing, is UKIP a good party for a woman to be a member of?

DIANE JAMES: Well I think it is.  If you look at our contingent in the European Parliament itself, I am one of a number of UKIP women members, we have got the highest proportion compared to any other party, certainly from the United Kingdom.  We don’t do A lists, we don’t do Cameron Cuties, we don’t do quotas, we’re here on merit and I stand up for that.

DM: Okay, Diane James very good to see you, thank you very much indeed, the spokesman for UKIP there.