ANY QUOTES MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, the Defence Secretary has warned that Paris style attacks could happen in the United Kingdom as the government continues to press its case for air strikes in Syria.  It’s been reported in the Telegraph newspaper this morning that the Prime Minister could be forced to scrap a vote in the House of Commons if Labour MPs are whipped to vote against it.  Well I’m joined now by the new Chair of Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee, the Conservative MP Dominic Grieve, a very good morning to you Mr Grieve.  That warning from the Defence Secretary, given the committee you sit on, that a Paris style attack could happen anywhere in the United Kingdom, you’d presumably go along with that?

DOMINIC GRIEVE: I’m sure the evidence has been overwhelming for some time that we could suffer a similar attack.  It’s been pointed out that the availability of semi-automatic weapons in this country is less great than it is in France, that’s partly because of our good fortune in being an island, but notwithstanding that I think there has been a risk of such attacks taking place for a long time.  That’s been quite clear from what the Prime Minister said in Parliament and I have never seen anything to suggest otherwise.

DM: Do you think that’s perhaps the only thing that’s preventing an attack, is the availability of automatic weapons? There is the desire and the personnel, is that what you’re saying, they are already here?

DOMINIC GRIEVE: The evidence which has been presented to Parliament, we’ll leave the Intelligence and Security Committee out of it, has made quite clear that there are a number of instances in which there have been plots to commit mass terrorism in this country.  I think we have been living under this for a very long time, arguably it’s been going on for years.  I think we have been extraordinarily fortunate that our intelligence agencies have been able to prevent those.  There have of course been incidents, and terrible incidents like the murder of Fusilier Drummer Lee Rigby, those incidents appalling those they are, have been of a rather limited character, certainly since the 7/7 attacks so yes, the risk is clearly there that it may happen again.  Exactly what form it will take I don't know but I think that we are certainly fortunate in that the availability of semi-automatic weaponry particularly amongst criminals in this country appears to be less available than it is on the continent, but that’s only one aspect of the way in which an attack could take place.

DM: So that threat though, shadowing and informing the debate about British military involvement in Syria, is it your view that extending attacks, British attacks against Islamic State into Syria, would make this country safer?

DOMINIC GRIEVE: My personal view is that it’s not a solution in itself, it can’t be and indeed the Prime Minister hasn’t suggested that it’s a solution in itself and I can well understand why some of my colleagues from whatever benches they may be on, are concerned about taking such a move but we are currently taking military action in a limited way in Iraq against IS.  There is effectively no border between northern Iraq and northern Syria and there is I think an illogicality in restricting the ability of British forces to participate in striking at IS in northern Syria.  By doing that I have very little doubt that it may contribute to reducing IS’s ability to conducting terrorism anywhere else in the world, whether it’s terrorism against people locally or indeed in Tunisia where of course we also suffered casualties or indeed in the United Kingdom.  So I think it is a legitimate thing for the Prime Minister to ask for but it’s not going to provide in itself a long term solution to this problem which is of course based by the ungoverned space that exists and indeed the massive political and social crisis which is tearing the Middle East apart and which one can see daily on our screens and in which the principle victims are Muslims.

DM: Let me key in to your legal expertise on this.  Of course there has been a UN resolution, the previous argument about Britain not getting involved was that the Syrian government had not asked for it and that still is the case but there has been a UN resolution but there are those that say this is not a Chapter Seven from the United Nations mandating UN members to use all means necessary to get involved.  Would there be enough legal cover?

DOMINIC GRIEVE: If there were to be a Chapter Seven resolution, well that would be clearly a very desirable outcome.

DM: But what exists now?

DOMINIC GRIEVE: What exists now, I have to say that under Article 51 of the UN Charter there is a right to self-defence both individually and collectively.  If Northern Syria is being used as a base to attack Iraq and for that matter to foment terrorism in the United Kingdom and there is no other reasonable means of trying to control it other than using military force, then the right to self-defence under Article 51 of the UN Charter must apply.  I had never thought there were complex legal issues about what IS is doing in Syria and the right to take military action against IS but the much more important question is is there a strategy and can it be part of the strategy.  The other thing we have to remember and I think is sometimes forgotten in this debate, is if parliament votes to approve the use of British military force in northern Syria, this isn’t some green light to generalised military action, every single act which takes place thereafter must be necessary and proportionate to some legitimate end, which must be preventing IS perpetrating terrorism.  It doesn’t give a blank cheque to the Prime Minister or indeed anybody else to carry out generalised military operations unless they have some specific and clear purpose which is legitimate.  

DM: This last question is about your own party, the investigation that’s going on into the youth wing about over-enthusiastic, as the Defence Secretary has termed it, activities – bullying, intimidation.  I don't know if they campaigned in your constituency during the recent general election but it’s got to be sorted out hasn’t it?

DOMINIC GRIEVE: I’ve never had anything to do with them. Of course youth wings of parties are very important but bullying within youth wings is completely unacceptable and the stories that have come out are I think very concerning and I am very pleased that the Prime Minister has made it clear that we are going to get to the bottom of it.  Those that are young and want to get involved in politics have got to be provided with role models that show them what politics is about and how it can be conducted properly.

DM: Mr Grieve, thank you very much indeed, Dominic Grieve there, very good to see you.