ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now then, here’s a question, will the next election reignite calls for electoral reform?  All bets are off as to the election results in May but it is likely no single party will win an overall majority.  Well Douglas Carswell has campaigned for a change to the way we vote, both as a Conservative and now as a UKIP MP and he joins me now.  A very good morning to you Mr Carswell.  Well we might have had emerging from this parliament a change to the voting system, well two big changes, AV and indeed some boundary changes, none of which has transpired.  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Yes, I think the fundamental problem with the proposal put forward by Nick Clegg for AV is it’s a second best system for everyone.  We can do better than that.  We do need change but I think the proposals that were put forward were rightly rejected and I think we need to look again at this.  I think UKIP needs to be not too prescriptive, we need to build a progressive coalition who want real reform and that is going to mean reaching out to people right across the spectrum.   

DM: Including the Lib Dems, they’re very keen on it.  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: If there are many Lib Dems who want change, yes, we’ll work even with them but I think it is important to recognise …

DM: So what kind of change are you talking about then?  You said AV wasn’t very good, it was a fairly simple system wasn’t it?  Do you think something more sophisticated?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Well I think there are some fairly straightforward systems that we need to look at and I am not saying this is UKIP policy but I think you need choice and competition fundamentally in politics and that means I think being able to be represented by someone who is competing to do the best for you.  Now we’ve had in this country one MP per constituency for only quite a short period of time.  Up until the 1880s we had multi-member seats and I think we need to look at that and that, by definition, would reintroduce an element of choice and competition.  If you were fed up with your useless MP from party X you could go to party Y.

DM: So that would be PR then, you’d have one, two, three, four, five, you could number the people in front of you in terms of the order of preference?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: All of these systems are colloquially known as PR, there are some very bad systems of PR with party lists which I would hope we would not want but there are some good ones.  Don’t forget there is AV plus as well.  I don’t want to be too prescriptive about this but I’m interested in change.  

DM: But how much traction is this getting within UKIP?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Well I suspect that after the next election, regardless of the number of MPs, I suspect that the calls for change are going to only grow because the old system that we have in this country is designed for a Tweedledee versus Tweedledum contest and it just doesn’t produce a fair result anymore.  

DM: Some would say you are preparing the territory for UKIP to come along and say however many percentage you get in the first past the post election that we’re about to have, for saying you were hard done by when you end up with a handful of MPs.  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: I changed my mind  - and I blog every day and one of the advantages of that is it records your thoughts and I was looking back at things I’d been writing at the height of the MPs expense scandal and I changed my mind in 2009 on this.  I think that this is not opportunism, I think if you want real choice and competition, if you want to break open the cosy cartel in Westminster, you need to look at the electoral system.  There are other things that we need to change too, for example recall.  I would say that recall is even more important than electoral reform but we need fundamental change and unless we get change, we’re not going to get … well disillusion with the political system is only going to grow.  

DM: Tell me about the overall state of UKIP.  You have just had that conference in Margate haven’t you that we’ve all been looking at and the leader, Nigel Farage, arrived back from the United States where he addressed rather an empty hall.  Do you think that was a good idea that he went to the United States at this time?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: Well I think it is, I think it shows that he’s got a profile and …

DM: But hardly anyone turned up.  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: I think you are being a little bit unfair.  I think CPAC is a hugely popular event and he went to Washington and he went to Margate and he spoke to enthusiastic audiences in both and the thing I think really put a spring in people’s steps is that in Margate, on the eve of the poll, sorry, on the eve of the conference there was a poll out showing that UKIP has got an 11 point lead in that seat now.  So I think things are moving in the right direction.  

DM: Okay, talking about polls there, I wanted to mention this one to you, this must be rather worrying to someone like you, Mr Carswell.  44% of people interviewed a couple of days ago agreed with the statement that UKIP was a racist party, 44%.  You do keep weeding out the odd one here and there don’t you that say silly things.  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: UKIP is absolutely not a racist party and I think it is really important that we get that message across.  There have been unfortunately some people, and it happens in mass membership organisations, who espouse views that are offensive and where that’s happened UKIP has responded very firmly, very decisively and removed them and that’s really important.

DM: 44% up from 30% who disagree.  It is a worry to you though isn’t it?  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: We need to challenge racist attitudes wherever we find them.  I am really delighted that the newest member that I’ve got in my own association is a first generation Briton who is exactly the sort of person that UKIP needs to attract.  

DM: And just lastly I want to ask you, if Mr Farage doesn’t make it through into the House of Commons and you do, would you be up for leading the party?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: No, absolutely not.  I will never, ever lead a political party, it would be bad for me and it would be bad for the party, it would be bad for politics too.

DM: And that’s a red line is it?  

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: I’m not in politics because I want to lead a party, I want change for my country.   

DM: What about if the party wanted you?

DOUGLAS CARSWELL: There are all sorts of things I can do for UKIP and  I think making sure that I win in Clacton is number one.  

DM: Okay Mr Carswell, good to see you.  Douglas Carswell there.