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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now the leak of the Panama Papers has once again put British overseas territories in the spotlight of those wanting to clamp down on the sometimes murky world of offshore finance.  The documents showed that the Panama based legal firm Mossack Fonseca registered more than 100,000 secret companies to the British Virgin Islands, just one of the overseas territories which lead the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to call for the UK government to consider reimposing direct rule over them.  I am joined now from Gibraltar by the Chief Minister of the Territory, Fabian Picardo, a very good morning to you Mr Picardo.  Do you feel you are being caught up in all this, would you say Gibraltar is different to Panama?

FABIAN PICARDO: Well if I said that, Dermot, it would only have the credibility of somebody defending their own patch but let’s look at what other people say about Gibraltar.  The Tax Justice Network and Transparency International which are two of the leading groups that have been trying to ensure that there is transparency in financial dealings around the world, and some of the leading NGOs like Global Witness and Christian Aid, have said that Monserrat and Gibraltar should be given huge credit for the work that we have done to ensure that we are actually much more transparent and of course Gibraltar is part of the European Union with the United Kingdom and the regulations that apply in Gibraltar are exactly the same regulations that apply in the United Kingdom, in Frankfurt in Germany, in Paris in France and in Madrid in Spain.  So those are the fit for purpose regulations which we apply in Gibraltar and that is the fit for purpose financial services jurisdiction that we are.  

DM: Well you’ll be aware of other not so glowing reviews from other international bodies, the Financial Secrecy Index calling Gibraltar secret and uncooperative.

FABIAN PICARDO: Well only insofar as that may have been the position before the latest review where we have the same sorts of rules that the United Kingdom had.  Remember the United Kingdom has only started to talk about a central register of beneficial ownership under the leadership of David Cameron and that is why we in Gibraltar are adopting a central register of beneficial ownership.  That was put on the agenda by the United Kingdom at the G8 by the Prime Minister himself, that has now become the standard of the Fourth Anti-Money Laundering Directive which is going to apply throughout the European Union including the United Kingdom and Gibraltar and I hope after 23rd June too as I hope that the United Kingdom and Gibraltar will vote to remain part of the European Union.   

DM: So your response to Mr Corbyn and the Labour party saying if you don’t cooperate then territories like yours will be cut off from the UK, you can go independent the Shadow Chancellor said if you like?

FABIAN PICARDO: Well it’s not an issue that applies to Gibraltar.  First of all Gibraltar is working very closely with the United Kingdom on these issues, we are working to the European standard, we are going to be as transparent as Germany, the United Kingdom, France and Spain, so I don't know there is any issue there.  But let’s really understand what it is that we’re talking about, a lot of what you’re talking about does not relate to Gibraltar but generally to what it is that you’ve seen played out in the newspapers in the past week.  It relates to people avoiding taxes in their home state by using territories that are not their home state.  One of the territories if they use very often if you are not in the United Kingdom is ironically the United Kingdom which is seen by many countries around the world as one of the biggest offshore tax havens on the planet.  Alternatively Delaware in the United States.  The rules that need to be looked at and where work needs to be done, if you want a fairer society, if you want a fairer world, are the rules at home.  

DM: An interesting argument, so Fabian Picardo, you are saying to the UK government, whichever party is in charge, get your own house in order, sort out the non-doms and things like that?  

FABIAN PICARDO: Well it’s not my argument with respect.  If you look at what Patricia Hodge was told when she was chairing the parliamentary committee on the subject by the ex-head of Revenue and Customs, she was saying look it’s parliament that creates the loopholes in this nation that people are advised they can legally exploit for the purposes of reducing, legally, their tax liabilities so it is those rules that you need to look at.  If I were to be allowed to directly rule the United Kingdom in the way that some are suggesting the overseas territories should be directly ruled from the United Kingdom, I can tell you exactly what those rules are that need to be fixed.  

DM: I don't think that will happening any time soon Mr Picardo!

FABIAN PICARDO: Or the opposite, or the opposite …

DM: We are nearly out of time, the last thought on the special situation concerning Gibraltar and of course you being connected to the Spanish mainland, does the Spanish government in your view use this against you when the finger is pointed at you from the UK and other countries, does the Spanish government exploit that?

FABIAN PICARDO: Of course it does but let’s be very clear on one thing, no finger is being pointed at Gibraltar from the United Kingdom.  We have a very strong relationship with the administration in Whitehall, we are working very closely with them, we are going to be the first with a central register of beneficial ownership which will be searchable, will be able to give the information within an hour if necessary and our register will be verified and it will be updated in real time whilst others will have annually updated unverified registers.  I think we are a success story and that’s why the NGOs, that’s why Transparency International and the Tax Justice Network are saying Gibraltar does us credit.  

DM: A robust defence there. Fabian Picardo, thank you very much indeed, Chief  Minister of Gibraltar.