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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Now Labour could be facing its biggest crisis in a generation according to the man who actually wrote the party’s manifesto.  John Cruddas has told the Observer today the party needs to go to some pretty dark places to work out what went wrong.  Let’s take a look at that and the rest of the stories in today’s papers and I’m joined by the former England and Arsenal player Sol Campbell, Frances O’Grady the General Secretary of the TUC and the journalist and author, Eve Pollard, the former editor of the Sunday Mirror and Sunday Express.   Frances, there needs to be a root and branch investigation doesn’t there, an understanding of what went wrong.

FRANCES O’GRADY: Well I think John’s right that we certainly need to think a bit more deeply about whether Labour’s loss was down to the manifesto being too left wing or not left wing enough.  I think John is right that the issues go much deeper than that.  

DM: Do you have your own views on whether it was too much left or too much right?

FRANCES O’GRADY: Well I think if you look at the individual policies like tackling tax dodging, building new homes, fair pay, all of these were very popular with the public.  I think what John’s saying it wasn’t a story, it didn’t add up to a story that resonated with the public and he points out that IPPR had done some important work about tackling …

DM: This is the think tank.

FRANCES O’GRADY: Yes, important work about tackling the root causes of inequality, how you connect that big aspiration to people’s own personal lives, whether that’s on schooling, education, what happens at work, where you live, what’s happening in your neighbourhood so I think he’s got some important things to say there.
I think for a lot of people having a decent home, having fair pay, having the chance to get an education or an apprenticeship, that is aspiration.  

DM: Frances, within this there is this huge discussion about the role of the unions in electing the new leader and indeed the policies that are adopted, what are your views on that?  There are going to be some candidates that will say we really have to deal with the formal union link and the links that they have with so many Labour MPs.

FRANCES O’GRADY: Of course the big reform that Ed Miliband introduced to party rules was that it’s now going to be one member one vote so union leaders, you, me, anybody can have our opinion and try and guide people as to what we think is the right choice but ultimately it’s going to be a case of one person, one vote so in some ways this is the most unpredictable Labour election that we’ve had in a …

DM: Do you have a personal favourite amongst the contenders we’ve had so far?

FRANCES O’GRADY: As an individual I think like many people I genuinely want to hear what those candidates have to say.  

DM: I thought you might say that!  We’ll stay with you Frances for the next story on the front page of the Times, this is the PMs guru attacking its party’s donors – former chief strategist for David Cameron.  Just talk us through it.  

FRANCES O’GRADY: I think this is perhaps another example of the blue on blue battles that we’re going to see in the next parliament.  David Cameron’s former chief strategist Steve Hilton urging the Prime Minister to address this, I think the word ‘possible corruption’ is used of politics whereby very big powerful donors like individually extremely wealthy men and hedge funds and private equity and so on, can change the nature of a political party.

DM: A bit like the trade unions then?

FRANCES O’GRADY: Yes but the difference is of course that individual shop workers and nurses and teachers or health workers, that’s a little bit different in most people’s minds to very, very individually wealthy people.  

[Story on House of Lords reform]
It is kind of fascinating at a time when some of the papers seem so obsessed with union democracy and their role with the Labour party, well some unions in linking with the Labour party, not all of them, that nobody is talking about this great unelected body and the reforms that it needs if it were to become democratic but I have to say all credit to Vince and co.  I think it does need reform, it is very 19th century in the 21st century.

DM: Frances, you’ve got the Observer on no more cuts.

FRANCES O’GRADY: Well here we go, another blue on blue battle, interesting letter to the Observer with the accompanying article from the now Tory leader of the Local Government Association speaking on behalf of all his members regardless of the political party.  A real concern on the part of local government that it’s already had 40% cuts, how is it going to empty the bins, keep the parks in good order and look after elderly and disabled people and do what Steve Hilton previously was calling for which was champion the living wage, if they are going to be subject to even more swingeing cuts in George Osborne’s July budget.

DM: And it is much more difficult for people to get a handle on that when it comes to apportioning blame, when the cuts come through. Okay it may be the central government cutting the funding but it’s the local government that ultimately has to impose the cuts and people think, is this just happening at a local level, is it about council taxes and not necessarily about the government.  

FRANCES O’GRADY: Maybe Conservative councillors saying no!

DM: Listen, thank you all very much indeed for that whizz through the papers, Sol, Frances and Eve, very good to see you all.