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DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well now, the Scottish National Party will launch anew case for Scottish independence this summer, whatever the outcome of the EUreferendum.  It is only 18 months ofcourse since Scotland voted to remain part of the United Kingdom and I’m joinednow by the SNP’s business spokesperson, Hannah Bardell, she is live at theirconference in Scotland.  A very goodmorning to you Hannah Bardell, what’s all this about, a new independencereferendum campaign?  Your own leadersaid it was a once in a generation vote. 

HANNAH BARDELL: Happy Sunday, Dermot.

DM: HappySunday to you, a very good morning to you Deputy Leader.  Well let’s continue with that researchcarried out by Gloria De Piero and Jonathan Ashworth, a lot of it was done notin Labour’s so-called heartlands but in the so-called Blair constituencies thatyou won in the 90s, some of them in the south, held throughout the earlynoughties and are now lost and the voters are telling your researchers theyhave no inclination to come back.

HANNAH BARDELL: What this is about is saying that we respect theoutcome of the referendum in 2014 but we want to continue to make thatcase.  We are the Scottish NationalParty, we are the party of independence, that has never change and we want tocontinue to stand up for Scotland against Westminster’s austerity cuts and tomake a positive case for independence, to show that Scotland can be prosperousand can be a nation that stands on its own two feet and does thingsdifferently, as we have shown in government in Scotland. 

DM: Itake all that on board but what about the once in a generation bit?  That’s got to be at least what, 20 or 30years?  

HANNAH BARDELL: What we have said very clearly is that this will bea matter for the people of Scotland.  Nowif the people of Scotland decide – and there is demonstrable evidence thatanother referendum is what the people of Scotland want – then we will listen tothat and we will put that forward and we will continue to make a positive casefor Scotland being able to be an independent country.  We recognise that some people weren’tconvinced by our arguments and as the First Minister said yesterday, we aredoing things differently in Scotland, we are making people’s lives betteragainst a backdrop of Westminster austerity cuts.

DM: Doyou think part of that listening to the people of Scotland, as you put it,clearly you can’t have a referendum about having a referendum, so you have justgot to listen – do you think you will hear the cry come more loudly if the UKas a whole should vote to leave the EU?

HANNAH BARDELL: All the polls are suggesting that a majority ofpeople in Scotland are against leaving the European Union.  That is not to say that there are not peoplewho do want to leave but we believe that we should have the opportunity to makethat decision for ourselves, not be dragged out against our will as part of theUnited Kingdom.  It is disrespectful tothe people, not just of Scotland but to the rest of the UK, to be rushing intothis EU referendum, around six weeks after we are going to have had electionsin the devolved administrations across the UK. The independence referendum in Scotland changed politics, it gave peoplethe opportunity to have a say in their own future and to really engage andunderstand what a yes vote would look like. We are not going to have that opportunity in the EU referendum because DavidCameron is rushing to the finish line to try and get us to stay in withoutmaking the case positively and engaging people in the way that we did when weset a gold standard for having referendums. 

DM: Butwhen it comes to making your own decisions, making Scottish decisions inScotland, a lot of people are going to be saying, well sauce for the gooseetc.  What about this Sunday tradingvote?  I mean first of all reports arethat the SNP ratted on a deal with the Conservatives to abstain, offered StuartHosier a seat in the Privy Council and things like that but the SNP ratted onthat deal to cause the Conservative government embarrassment. 

HANNAH BARDELL: What I would say, Dermot, is you shouldn’t believeeverything that you read in the press.  Iwas part of that engagement with businesses, individuals, trade unions, tolisten and to understand what the concerns were and we were very clear at thetime when the proposals were brought forward and we were very clear last week –this was about premium pay for some of the poorest paid workers, the lowestpaid workers not just in Scotland but across the UK and it was very clear to meand to my colleagues in the SNP that if those changes were made, the potentialknock-on impact to those receiving premium pay, so we had no option but to voteagainst it. 

DM: Aconvoluted formula some would say.  Whathappened when it came to fox hunting then, what was your economic argument therewhen you vetoed the equalisation of the laws in Scotland and England? 

HANNAH BARDELL: Sorry, could you repeat that question, I didn’tquite catch it. 

DM: Youhave got previous, haven’t you, of meddling in so-called English only affairswhich Nicola Sturgeon said she wouldn’t do, when it came to changes to foxhunting, to make the law in England and Wales more or less the same as thatwhich pertains in Scotland – again the SNP embarrassed the government on thatone?  Was there an economic argument forthat? 

HANNAH BARDELL: Well there was an argument not just from people inScotland but across the UK contacting us in vast numbers saying they wanted usto vote against this.  We will always dowhat we believe is the right thing for not just Scotland but the rest of theUnited Kingdom, while we are still part of the UK and still part ofWestminster.  We said that we would be aprogressive force in Westminster and that we would work with others to pushthrough progressive policies and that’s what we do, specifically in the case ofSunday trading.   

DM: Howmany people, these vast numbers, contacted you about fox hunting?  How many people from England?   

HANNAH BARDELL: Well there were certainly, for myself, hundreds andif you multiply that across the various members, then that’s a significantnumber.  But the point is …

DM: Butthis is a nation of over 60 million, the UK has more than 60 million people init. 

HANNAH BARDELL: Do you want to get into an argument about thedetails of fox hunting or do you want to talk about the real issues that arefacing us such as the budget next week, the kind of cuts that are going to becoming down the line from the Chancellor, the EU referendum?  The two main parties in Westminster, Labourand Conservative, are split over this, the SNP continues to be a strong andunited voice to stay in the EU, to make a positive case. 

DM: Withrespect, Ms Bardell, we are talking about important issues, the judgements thatthe SNP makes when it comes to voting on UK matters and matters that affectEngland and Wales and not, it seems, Scotland, the judgements, the decisionsyou make to do that. 

HANNAH BARDELL:  Absolutelyand in terms of Sunday trading, it was very clear that there was going to be aknock-on impact not just for Scotland but for the rest of the UK in terms ofthose low paid workers in the retail sector so we were absolutely clear it wasthe right thing to do.  The government incontrast was not able to bring forward its own impact assessment until the dayof the vote, how disrespectful is that to parliament and not just to the votersin Scotland but in the other parts of the United Kingdom.  We worked with all of our colleagues acrossthe House to understand what the concerns were and to also understand what theconcerns were across society, in the retail sector, in trade unions and it wasvery clear. 

DM: Thereare people who would question those judgements but on the issue of fox hunting,you have been very clear about this, that the SNP made the judgement to opposethe change in the law in England and Wales because of the number of Englishpeople who had contacted you, therefore the SNP is making a judgement that itrepresents people who don’t vote for it, who can’t vote for it because the SNPdoesn’t stand south of the border.  Do yourepresent them as well?

HANNAH BARDELL: As we said in the 2015 election, we would be a progressiveforce, we would work positively with other parties where there were opportunitiesto protect not just the people of these islands but the animals, the wildlife.  We have just done quite a significant campaignon saving the wildlife crime unit, which the UK government was going to pull fundingfrom, that’s headquartered in my constituency in Livingstone and we have securedfunding over the next four years.  So thereis another example where we are willing to listen not just to people in Scotlandbut to people across the UK and it was people in Scotland that contacted us as wellbut there was a great opportunity to do something positive and save the wildlifeand the foxes in England and in other parts of the United Kingdom.  

DM: Okay,we must end it there.  Hannah Bardell, thankyou very much indeed.