ANY QUOTES USED MUST BE ATTRIBUTED TO MURNAGHAN, SKY NEWS

DERMOT MURNAGHAN: Well now, a few years ago it looked like this election would be a straightforward fight for labour, a clear choice between austerity on the one hand and fairness on the other but Labour’s message seems not to be fully cutting through and now the party is facing the likely prospect of having to do a deal to perhaps retake Number Ten.  I am joined now by Labour’s Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman, a very good morning to you and let’s talk about those deals, it’s what everyone is talking about with a few days to go before the general election.  We now know from your health spokesman Andy Burnham you’re not open to a formal deal with the SNP but of course you would talk to them.

HARRIET HARMAN:  Well I will answer your question very, very specifically in a minute but can I just say something about all this discussion that’s going on about deals and coalitions.  The deal is not until Thursday and about a third of people haven’t made up their mind and as I go all around the country I meet so many people who say yes, I am going to vote but I haven’t decided yet and I still want to know what you’re going to do on the health service, what you’re going to on jobs, what you’re going to do on living standards and therefore let’s not rush ahead of ourselves and have a certainty about what’s going to be the outcome because we’ve been here before the pollsters all discuss …

DM: Of course we have, many times.

HARRIET HARMAN:  … oh it’s going to be hung parliament or it’s going to be … and actually at the moment what the discussion ought to be about – and sorry, I’ll discuss whatever you want but what the discussion really ought to be about is living standards, the health service, jobs security and the prospects for people in this country.

DM: But it is also about whether you are able to put that programme into operation and  you are still saying you can win an outright majority given what’s going on in Scotland, the dozens of seats that Labour may lose, you still feel you can win an outright majority?

HARRIET HARMAN:  Absolutely because there are a lot of people in Scotland who are paying the bedroom tax and have got a chance to vote on Thursday and actually if they vote Labour they can actually get rid of the bedroom tax straight away rather than taking a gamble by voting for the SNP and people will be having these thoughts up and down the country and will be campaigning, I think there are something like a hundred hours left, we’ll be campaigning to give people that choice.  Do they want the unfairness with the Tories, with people at the top doing very well but everybody else struggling, with the prospect of tuition fees going up still further with the Tories or with our very clear promises …

DM: Well with all those caveats, the polls can change of course but at the moment they are not showing a prospect of an outright Labour majority and back to that first question, people do want to know what the plans [BC] are for Labour and as I said, your health spokesman made it clear you  will talk to the SNP.  We know, we’ve had it loud and clear from the leader and others, no formal deals with the SNP but you would talk to them.

HARRIET HARMAN:  But the formal deal we are having is not with any other political party, it’s actually with the public, that’s why we are making it absolutely clear what we’re promising to do and that’s what we’ll do as elected.  What other parties do is a matter for them and our conversation is not with other political parties, it’s with the British people so it’s not about who you bump into in the lift after the election, we are absolutely clear, this is what would be in our Queen’s speech and this is our commitment to the British people because they’re entitled to know about that.

DM: So you can vote for us if you like but this is what we’re doing, that’s the message?

HARRIET HARMAN:  What we’re saying is that we’re not talking to other parties, we’re talking to the British people and we’re saying if you vote for us you will get a cut in tuition fees, you will get a mansion tax which puts more money into the NHS, you will have protection for tax credits because actually the people who matter at the moment now are the people who are making up their mind or have decided to vote and that’s what this is about …

DM: Okay, we’ve got that loud and clear.

HARRIET HARMAN:  We are almost having a projected discussion which is something where 30% of people, and the polls are clear on this, back me up on this, a lot of people haven’t made up our mind so really how do we help people make up our mind.  But I’ll tell you one thing …

DM: One way you’d do that is about this progressive alliance.  Let me put this another way, and I see you’ve got your pink bus badge on there, there must be part of you that admires Nicola Sturgeon and indeed those other women that are leading some of the smaller parties.

HARRIET HARMAN:  I always want to see women moving forward in all aspects of life but the point about us women in politics is that we’re not here for our own sake, we’re here for the sake of women in the country moving forward in their lives and do you know what …

DM: But there must be part of you also that would agree with the aggressive take that they have on politics.

HARRIET HARMAN:   No, no, let me just finish this final point which is what would make a difference to women in this country I think in terms of getting more childcare, in terms of better living standards, is not having David Cameron in Number Ten and  the irony is that there is a kind of co-incidence of interest between the Tories talking up the SNP because they’ve given up the chance of winning themselves, the Tories, it seems to me and the SNP talking up the SNP but actually we want to be in government with a team of women and men working under Ed Miliband as Prime Minister so we can deliver for women in this country and women in this country are not going to do well if David Cameron stays in.

DM: You are deputy leader, would you expect to be Deputy Prime Minister?

HARRIET HARMAN:   Well I think again that’s, and I’m not trying to be difficult here but that falls under the category of what sort of curtains would you have in Number Ten if you got elected …

DM: Well no, it doesn’t because we’ve just been talking about strong women at the top of politics. You are the deputy leader, wouldn’t it be great to have a female Deputy Prime Minister?

HARRIET HARMAN:  I am deputy leader and I am Shadow Deputy Prime Minister but actually we are not talking about who is going to do what job in a government when people have yet to vote and you know, as I say all this talk of coalition has not come out of the blue – well it has come out of the blue actually as it’s come mostly from the Tories.

DM: It has come mostly from the polling.

HARRIET HARMAN:   Well no, it’s come from the Tories talking up the SNP because they are their best hope of stopping Labour and we want to be discussing with the people what’s going to happen …

DM: Well I’m sorry, the last question is about coalitions and what happens on May 8th but it’s been made clear by Ed Miliband last time round in 2010 that the view from Labour is that the Prime Minister gets the first go because this is what Ed Miliband said when those negotiations were taking place in 2010 which of course you lived through, that the Prime Minister gets the first go at forming a government and that’s just very simple.  

HARRIET HARMAN:  So what’s the question?

DM: So Mr Cameron gets the first go.

HARRIET HARMAN:  We know what the constitutional suggestions are but actually what matters is will we have a majority so we can actually have our Queen’s Speech and that’s what we’re aiming for.  There are all sorts of constitutional experts you’ll have to actually, and commentators who could actually probably answer all these questions but what we’re talking about is that we want people to vote Labour because we want to save the NHS, because we want better living standards and actually my job is not to discuss constitutional niceties against an eventuality that hasn’t happened, my job is to say we know you’re feeling worse off, we know you’re worried about the NHS and there is something you can do about this which is a) vote because lots of people don’t vote and b) vote Labour.

DM: Harriet Harman, good to see you, thank you very much indeed, the deputy leader of the Labour party there.